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#135843 - 03/08/05 04:09 AM Re: Training to fight only the best.
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10813
Loc: North Carolina
You said,

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Oozuru:
UFC and PrideFC dudes aint even close to being the best, the best ones can only be found on that dreaded 'S' word. [/QUOTE]

All that I simply wanted to do, was to find out why you felt that way. I mean, that opinion of your's still applies doesn't it? Or, you wouldn't have uttered it in the first place right?

Or, could you have had a change of opinion and now see things differently?


-John

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#135844 - 03/08/05 06:30 AM Re: Training to fight only the best.
Anonymous
Unregistered


Oozuru -

LOL!

Your street myth is not supported by the facts whatsoever.

How many UFC's have those street fighters won? Hell, how many matches have they won, compared to the trained fighters?

Not to say that there are not good fighters out on the street, but the trained guys are going to have a much higher rate of success.

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#135845 - 03/08/05 03:47 PM Re: Training to fight only the best.
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ugh, okay I'll put it another way, while some UFC fighters are street fighters as well such as David Abbott, 'street' fighters are trained too...well some of them any way. See I remember this one blonde lady, really street worthy, she was a third dan in Shotokan too. Anyway I know of her because I had the inconvenience of meating her, maybe she had you know what, but she takes her temper out on me. I say a short tmeper will make a fool of you soon enough and sure enough it did, after she used almost everything a black belt in Karate can learn she got fatigued because I dodged and parried everything she threw at me. I took pitty on her (yes because she was a lady), I said "it's okay now, everything's going to be okay." From the way some of you talk I wouldn't put it past you to beat her to death, but that's just me, a merciful human being (imagine that).

So, I would hope that you understand me now, just because you're on the street doesn't mean you're 'untrained', you know what assuming does, right? "Assume makes an *** out of you and me."

[This message has been edited by Oozuru (edited 03-08-2005).]

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#135846 - 03/09/05 05:14 AM Re: Training to fight only the best.
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chen Zen:
Any reality based hand to hand system eventually resembles boxing. Thats not to say that the footwork is the same. Or that you might not throw a kick or two but that the actual punches resmble boxing. It occurs all over the world. An observation of real fighting shows that.

Why would you need a technique that wouldnt work against a skilled opponent? Well, not everyone is skilled. Lets say for a moment that the skilled opponent being reffered to has some skill with Muay Thai, as most MMA guys do. Now since this is the case, its less likely that you will hit a low level kick, and even less likely that the low level kick is going to damage the structure. Does this mean that the kick is less effective and should be dropped from the curriculum? Its still going to work against joe schmoe. Eventually, it seems that it all gets streamlined,which is good, but if you do this too much then you lose out on some great things, and everyone begins to fight like everyone else. That isnt JKD. Thats a style. An automatic response directed for the masses and it eventually will fall apart.
[/QUOTE]

Okay, I think I see your point, though I don't agree with it.

For people to fight the same, they would have to *be* the same. Their fighting *styles* might look like each others, but didn't Bruce say there is no styles of fighting? We have two arms, two legs, the thing is to put those tools to the best possible use.

Take boxing for an example. Boxing prohibits attacking below waist level.

In boxing only punching is allowed. No elbows, no knees, no kicks, no dirty techniques, no grappling is allowed.

Punches has been limited to jab, cross, hook, uppercut and any variations and or combos of those.

Also a lot of techniques are no longer possible in boxing because of the gloves.

If you compare that to actual fighting it is a very, very limited *game*.

Still you see many different ways of fighting hidden within boxing. Hidden within, basicly, four punches.

The difference in *style* is in how they use their punches, how they combine them.

It is also seen in how they react to an attack. Some curl up behind their gloves, jamming the attacker, then counter attacking. Some use distance, yet others duck, slip, bob and weave.

Some are very aggressive, always setting the pace, others let the opponent set the pace to feel his rythm, then use it against him self, always letting him set the pace, and just staying one half beat ahead.

All this is seen in a fighting art that is basicly consistent of four punches with target areas limited to the body and head.

What makes some boxers better boxers than others?

How fast their punches is. How unexpected they are when launched. How well they read the opponent. How hard and penetrating each punch is.
The ability to hit from *all* angles.

The very same thing that makes any fighter a good fighter, IMHO.

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#135847 - 03/16/05 08:04 PM Re: Training to fight only the best.
Anonymous
Unregistered


Many of you spend too much time posting on here and not enough time training. You learn best from experience...not idle talk.

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#135848 - 04/06/05 10:31 AM Re: Training to fight only the best.
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by silvertigertkd1:
Another thing I've noticed personally is when the situation unfolds its almost like slow motion. I'd blast my attacker with a punch or spin him and choke him out. The whole event seemed to last longer than it really did. I told a friend about this observation and he said he's heard the same thing from others who had to use their skill on the street. I guess its the adrenaline rush.[/QUOTE]


See the topic no-minded-state ;-)

Grtz Randy

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#135849 - 04/06/05 11:04 AM Re: Training to fight only the best.
Anonymous
Unregistered


IMHO you have to train to be able to fight anyone anywhere. If it be a MT-fighter or a Streetfighter. You just have to calculate in your training that you can't prepare for anything. And just by knowing that you are... Does that make sense?

I personally don't compete anymore in tournaments because my own style is to agressive. Since I combine serveral disciplines like wrestling / greec-roman / karate / ninpo / taijitsu. I would have trouble to fight according rules, becuase it limits me. On the other hand I can learn more about surviving in limited situations.

But like what's said before on the streets there are no rules. Just survival. So train every bit of your body to withstand an attack and learn to attack from every postition. For example, off-balance shots, circling, etc.

As for training only for the best only... Maybe... If you wanna be the best of the best or wanna see how far your skill reaches in Kumite. If you use you MA for yourself then I'd say no.

I'd say you have to combine (use what you can use, discard the rest). So you'll have to train with skilled MA-ists because they have an amount of control of their body and moves. But still train with the liveness of the street.

- Off-balance attacks
- Broken rythm
- Circling
- Defense against headdown-rushins
- Defense against tanklike opponents, who will just walk through you.

As for the duscussion about: can a streetfighter outclass a skilled MA-ist. Maybe... If he's experienced enough and knows when and where to hit, etc. It's all about experience.

I mean I like to think I'm a skilled and experienced fighter, but I'm not sure. Maybe I encounter someone tomorrow that's gonna beat my ass... There's always someone better out there.

IMHO you can hack away the unessentials. But only in excesive movement and some useless slaps. For example I don't do the spinning back kick anymore because it just doesn't work for me. That doedn't mean I can't perform it anymore or won't be needing it anymore.

Plus that most people here who train have a certain amount of conditioning and muscle memory. I mean I don't think that anyone here who is skilled trains Uchi Uke (as example) on a daily basis for hours in a row. You know how to use it and can perform. So move on to another action and practise that. Then combine the 2 moves you have "mastered". So you won't forget. That way you can save the time in training, which I don't have much.

So I think it is not about hacking away. It's about moving on the next goal.

I believe I totally lost the discussion in the end, but he. It's just me ;-)

Grtz Randy

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#135850 - 04/06/05 06:55 PM Re: Training to fight only the best.
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10813
Loc: North Carolina
[QUOTE]Originally posted by thesifudragon:
Many of you spend too much time posting on here and not enough time training. You learn best from experience...not idle talk.[/QUOTE]

Nice to see you on the forum. What did YOU come here to do? Post or train?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hellblaze:
You just have to calculate in your training that you can't prepare for anything.
[/QUOTE]

True, you can’t prepare for everything (which is what I think you were saying there). But that’s not best or most realistic idea anyway. The idea is to prepare YOURSELF to be the best you can be. That requires you to prepare by training against the skilled energy (as well as ‘unskilled’ energy on occasion).

No you can’t prepare for everything. That’s why its important that for true self-preservation (which I see as different than self defense), we must develop and use our BRAINS – the greatest weapon we have.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hellblaze:

I personally don't compete anymore in tournaments because my own style is to agressive. Since I combine serveral disciplines like wrestling / greec-roman / karate / ninpo / taijitsu. I would have trouble to fight according rules, becuase it limits me. On the other hand I can learn more about surviving in limited situations.
[/QUOTE]

Sounds like MMA might be a better fit for you.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hellblaze:

As for training only for the best only... Maybe... If you wanna be the best of the best or wanna see how far your skill reaches in Kumite. If you use you MA for yourself then I'd say no.
[/QUOTE]

I think many people are confused by what I refer to as “training for the best”. It’s more of, you train to fight against other “skilled” fighters rather than unskilled, unconditioned barroom bums. I think that’s fairly clear to understand.

I’m not talking about training to fight the worlds best fighters – merely the worlds “trained” fighters.


-John

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#135851 - 04/07/05 06:20 AM Re: Training to fight only the best.
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ok, tnx for your reply John, now I see your point. And I guess I totally missed it...LOL


You mean you train in the dojo or gym so you can preserve yourself on the street against a skilled fighter. Whatever it may be.

That's what I meant by "You can't prepare for everything" I just forgot to add the last line. "So train everything for anything".

MMA or Pride would be fit for me, but I'll have to train much more than I am now. I don't find the time to do so. Besides that my shoulder is busted, it bounced out again (3rd time in 3 years). So I'm training it back to strength.

Plus I believe that I don't have to prove myself. Some of my friends always want to spar, etc. But I don't feel like showing off you know. Not that I can't get my ass kicked in Kumite but still.

We'll see what happens when I'm back in the game 4 real. For now it's just recovering training for me. F***ed up... :-(

Grtz Randy

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#135852 - 04/14/05 02:49 PM Re: Training to fight only the best.
Anonymous
Unregistered


I agree with some of the replys here, i think its a good idea to train for both the trained martial artist and the basic run of the mill streetfighter, because sometimes your fighting both maybe a streetfighter with a lil martial arts backround, or an army guy or a boxer i like to take anything into account because you never know what you will be facing out there.
In my neighborhood recently there are some bloods an crips gangmembers seen around so i train myself to fight 2 3 or 5 people if i have too.Ya know a broad approach.

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