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#135347 - 10/03/04 06:44 PM Re: Footwork
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
[QUOTE]Originally posted by JKogas:
A counter kick (cut kick) is ok. But to hit the groin? You'd almost have to do this with the toe of the shoe as with a savate kick. That would have to be an extremely precise attack. Wouldn't it be better to just try and cut kick the inner thigh itself as it's usually done?

But, wouldn't it even be better than THAT to keep both feet firmly planted on the ground and fire the hands? I think so.

-John
[/QUOTE]

I agreed with your above post about the right. however a kick to the groin isnt infeasible. Considering that a strike to the groin doesnt take much power, then your strike can be more precise. Also since they are commencing attack with a kick the groin area is more accessable. The distance to travel from an inside knee or thigh strike to a groin hit is minimal. Take what you can get when you get it, instead of waiting for the one blow fight stopper.

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#135348 - 10/03/04 07:56 PM Re: Footwork
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by MuayThai:
...as I have always said, you gotta train Muay Thai to know hwo to defend agaisnt Muay Thai. There are many effective and very simple counters and evasions to kicks etc.
[This message has been edited by MuayThai (edited 10-03-2004).]
[/QUOTE]

Garbage. Although your commentary is great. Although, you can only change the kick when and if you chamber it - tell me how to do it without chambering or halfway through it's arc?

Benny the Jet beat champion MT fighters without even knowing or previously encountering thigh kicks.....

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#135349 - 10/03/04 08:05 PM Re: Footwork
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
I think you have to train against people fighting using Thai methods, but you're not limited to "Thai defenses" against Thai attacks.

I'd mentioned stepping in the straight right vs. the Thai kick and it's worked very well. I ALSO think you have to know how to shield kicks as well.

Another way to handle kickers is the pressure them. Push them against the ropes, cage, wall , car, etc. and go to work. Taking them down (ground & pound) is also a good method for dealing with kickers and continually works well.

-John

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#135350 - 10/04/04 01:12 AM Re: Footwork
Anonymous
Unregistered


I think the cross punch is the quickest retaliation. But a skilled fighter will fire them out of the blue or within a combo.

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#135351 - 10/04/04 04:20 AM Re: Footwork
MuayThai Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 2242
Loc: UK
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mark Hill:
Garbage. Although your commentary is great. Although, you can only change the kick when and if you chamber it - tell me how to do it without chambering or halfway through it's arc?

Benny the Jet beat champion MT fighters without even knowing or previously encountering thigh kicks.....
[/QUOTE]


Garbage!!! haha... get yer facts right buddy, benny the jet has a ZERO lose record, apparently, its known and figths are recorded that he got his ass handed to him by Muay Thai fighters... want me to dig up references? Benny Fought Thai fighters on restricted rules! No clinching, no elbows etc.... The man Benny was a good full contact kickboxer when it came to Thaiboxing he was CRAP! he had his ass handed to him almost every time unless he changed rules to suit his fights. research it.


dont call me dumb mate, and what arer talking about "you can only change the kick when and if you chamber it - tell me how to do it without chambering or halfway through it's arc?"

explain??? I havnt a baldy what your on about.. Are you talking about changing a Kikcin into a knee kick when someone closes teh distance... if so then you obviously havtn a f'ing clue about Muay Thai or what a knee kick is!!! A knee kick is the same as a kick only you strike using your knee, the motion is the exact same as a kick but you strike with the knee, and again, if someone moves into my arc in a straight line if I can touch his shoulders or head with my hand then I can kick him.... look bud, the only best way to show you or prove my point is have you stand in front of me and come in at me in a straight line... I guarantee you will change your closing method. Remember, if i can touch you I can kick you. Is it so hard to accept my word over someone who doesnt fully train in Muay Thai evasion and counter (not meaning to offend) Sorry mate, I run no gym, I dont even train people most of the time but I have fought, and I have trained with and around chmpions who have fought at high levels... I know my Muay Thai and I know that walking into my arc in a straight line is a mistake. Mate even doing it without a kick is a task inteself... I wish I could just show you [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG] that would clear all doubts you have in your head. trust me.

The best way to counter a Thai kick is by blocking it and using the other leg to kick before the other guy has set his kickin leg back down or using the teep to push him off balance.... punching or coming in to my kicking arc in a straight line is stupid! full stop. Try it. Why would we be taught to come in at a diagonal??? are you trying to tell me how it is?


Mark Hill, have you ever tried hitting someone with a cross punch when they are kicking you? Have you ever actually felkt a kick hit your side as your hands come up to punch?? I think not. Man do what you want, I couldnt give a damn, You have angered me and shown me you have absolutely no clue to fighting.... obviously you have not been fighting anyone worth their weight in gold.

A good kickiner will wind you as you try to close the distance to punch, as you punch you raise your arms, what happens... a perfect example can be found in a clip I posted a while back. Samkor, a good kicker kicked a good boxer around the ring, funnily enough the boxer tried to walk straight into samkors arc and countr by punching only to find himself beign kicked around the ring! Its not the only clip I have watched where a boxer will try to do the straight line closing and counter with a punch... do it if you want against a bad kicker but come against someone who can kick and your up s**t creek! a kick is hard and a kick will wind you unless you take the diagonal side step in thats why WE in Muay Thai train to close the arc by side stepping in on a diagonal line not straight, thats why WE in Muay Thai train to side step with a kick to catch it... obviously you havnt felt a kick.

[This message has been edited by MuayThai (edited 10-04-2004).]

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#135352 - 10/04/04 04:28 AM Re: Footwork
MuayThai Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 2242
Loc: UK
[QUOTE]Originally posted by JKogas:
Another way to handle kickers is the pressure them. Push them against the ropes, cage, wall , car, etc. and go to work. Taking them down (ground & pound) is also a good method for dealing with kickers and continually works well.

-John
[/QUOTE]

You make good points John, but what you really gotta do is go to a qaulity Thaiboxing gym and then test your evasive techniques there... they dont teach to walk in a straight line. As far as I know you arenot much of a kicker so I am only assuming you dont train with kicers so then dont have much experience with GOOD kickers... I dunno mate you can correct me if I am wrong.

Pressuring a kicker is a good thing if that kicker is a full contact kicboxer who doesnt know what to do UP CLOSE. I am only giving you knowledge as I havebeen given it and experienced it. I have tried walking into someones arc in a straight line (only to be corrected), it hurts, put it that way. I honestly dont know how you dont know this.

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#135353 - 10/04/04 06:43 AM Re: Footwork
Anonymous
Unregistered


Would you like to challenge Mr Uriquidez on his record?

How do you change the kick to a knee when the lower part of the leg is extending? This would be chambered. If you do a commited kick, don't tell me you can do it as hard if you leave it open to changing it.....anyway, the knee is much worse.

Have you been hit in the head when you try and swap this? Beleive me, YOU won't want to.

"Is it so hard to accept my word over someone who doesnt fully train in Muay Thai evasion and counter"

Yeah that's the problem. John's problems stem from he doesn't train in Jun Fan Kung Fu. Whatever.

"The best way to counter a Thai kick is by blocking it and using the other leg to kick before the other guy has set his kickin leg back down or using the teep to push him off balance.... punching or coming in to my kicking arc in a straight line is stupid! full stop. Try it. Why would we be taught to come in at a diagonal??? are you trying to tell me how it is?"

Chan Cheuk Fai disagrees. He taught me some of this. He was Adam Watt's trainer at one stage. Do you know who Adam Watt is? I suppose he isn't "authentic" since he doesn't come from thr fabled Thailand.

"Mark Hill, have you ever tried hitting someone with a cross punch when they are kicking you? Have you ever actually felkt a kick hit your side as your hands come up to punch?? I think not. Man do what you want, I couldnt give a damn, You have angered me and shown me you have absolutely no clue to fighting.... obviously you have not been fighting anyone worth their weight in gold."

Yes, it often works. Yes and it hurts, a lot. Oh I have angered the great god of muai thai, please forgive me [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG], beleive me, they have been &%#$inhg good fighters....it's not compettive, but out fighting doesn't care for age or weight divisions.

Obviously you are delusional because I have been kiced many times. Samkor is a good fighter, not a good kicker.

"We step diagonal" - wow, maybe you can show that to the Hapkido and JKD groups [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]

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#135354 - 10/04/04 10:04 AM Re: Footwork
MuayThai Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 2242
Loc: UK
http://www.angelfire.com/nj/thaiboxing/pics.html

just for you! Mark Hill, your amazing fighter Benny The jet getting his ass handed to him on only ONE occasion which there were many... even videos of his defeats but funnily enough non of his defeats are on his record .... hmmm....


ok, I will make you eat your words as soon as I find a few clips of benny being hammered by a few wirey looking underweight Thaiboxers.

http://members.aol.com/Thaiboxing2000/match.html

read that.

I aint saying benny is a crap fighter, he is a great FCKickboxing fighter but when there are knees, elbows, clinching, throws, kicking without foot protection and shin protection to any part of the body he is not what one would call "Great". I dont mean to question his ability it was you who brought him into teh conversation so tis me who is stating facts about him and his record against Muay Thai fighters..... his fights are world known.

Also, WKA is not a recognised Muay Thai sanctioning body, this is kickboxing. There may well be great Muay Thai fighters under WKA but it is not a recognised Muay Thai sanctioning body.



[This message has been edited by MuayThai (edited 10-04-2004).]

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#135355 - 10/04/04 10:33 PM Re: Footwork
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Who cares about a fight record or about the defensive aspects of as single attack? This thread is meant to be about footwork and how it works universally for a good fighter, not just Muay Thai way or JKd way. When will people learn that its not about you, or your sifu, its about knowledge that works regardless of the people or traditions behind it.

Also clean the language up or be booted from my otherwise peaceful forum. Thank you.

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#135356 - 10/05/04 12:46 PM Re: Footwork
MuayThai Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 2242
Loc: UK
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ryuoni:
I have accomplished much through self-taught martial arts, and sparring with friends, "friends" and "not so friendly" people, but my footwork is still lacking. So, if anyone could give me some pointers on extra drills to through into the mix, I will be more than happy to try them out. (I was just whomped by a friend today)My friend fought a superb kicking style and after my 10th consecutive stop-kick I started loosing balance. This is where she, yes she, took care of me. Seriously, any pointers would help.

Humbly I thank any replyers
~Brad~
[/QUOTE]


From a fighting point of view, disregard I train in Muay Thai and look at it this way... if you want to remove the power from your attackers attack then you move WITH the attack. There are tapping drills. Two of you stand, one slaps you shoulder and you side step in teh direction of his slap, i.e. he slaps your left shoulder so you side step to teh right and also immediately slap his left shoulder as you side step. This will develop your counter evasion reflex.

With kicking its important to block using your shin or move with the kick, catching a kick require sthat you also move with the kick or risk a bruised or broken rib in the process of cacthing a hard kick. To close the distance, there seems to be different ways to do this, teh way we are taught is to close in a diagonal line also miving in the direction of the kick. Footwork is important, the first drill will help to develop your reflex and footwork timing, try to stay relaxed and dont alwasy slap in a patterned manner, i.e. when you slap your partner dont hit him 1 time left 1 time right but mix the pattern up so its never a set pattern, understand.

You want to develop footwork which will help to dispell power from yoru attackers attack, Jkogas mentions about riding punches, flowing with punches is a great way, but again, you must alwasy remember never to stick with the method as a "smart" fighter will pick up on that very quickly and then use this to his advantage.

just my cents worth.

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