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#135330 - 09/19/04 08:53 PM What its all about
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
What It's All About


* Rewrite of a post at Martial Arts Planet

I look at martial arts forums and magazines and it surprises me how some people still don't get what fighting is about.

People do martial arts for different reasons, I get that, but if you are making any claim towards being able to fight (or teaching people to fight) then it is really quite simple what you should be training/teaching.

When I try to explain fighting to people I stress two points:

1. What matters is performance against a resisting opponent.

2. Stand Up, Clinch and Ground are all important for fighting.

Therefore, when it comes to training for fighting all that matters is increasing your performance in stand up, clinch and ground against a resisting opponent (which in training means free sparring and live drilling).

That's what it's all about, there is nothing else! Things that don't matter include: how many techniques you know, how a technique looks, how many boards you can break, how many kicks you can do in a minute, who your sensei is, what belts you have, if you can do a back flip, how big your library is, the brand of training gear you wear etc etc.

Someone can walk in the gym and say "I'm a 10th degree blackbelt in so and so" or "I trained with so and so in Japan", I really don't care. If we are talking about training all I want to know is how good are you at stand up, clinch and ground against a resisting opponent.

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying everyone must train/teach stand up, clinch and ground. You only need to train all three if you want to be a well rounded martial artist or able to fight/compete in limited or no rules arenas. It is fine to focus on just one area if that's what you enjoy. Plenty of people just do one and even those who train it all usually have a favourite. As long as they except the limitations of only training one aspect (as shown in countless MMA bouts) and their aim is increased performance against a resisting opponent then they will have usable tools for fighting. There are plenty of Judoka and boxers for example who are badass fighters even though they have weaknesses out of their range.

When training, ask yourself "Is this increasing my performance in stand up, clinch and/or ground against a resisting opponent?" and "Are there better ways I could be increasing performance?". If you are doing a kata, breaking boards, going up and down the mat doing unrealistic techniques then the answers are "no" and "yes" in that order.

If you do not have performance against a resisting opponent as your goal in training you are not learning to fight.


Great post that, from Levo I believe..


-John

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#135331 - 09/30/04 03:11 AM Re: What its all about
otobeawanker Offline
Member

Registered: 06/08/04
Posts: 192
Loc: CANADA
*claps*

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#135332 - 09/30/04 12:54 PM Re: What its all about
Anonymous
Unregistered


Mr.Kogas,
Not so fast grasshopper.
Self defense may be more about mentality than physicality. According to cardiologist Dr.James O'Keefe, activation of what is called the sympathetic nervous system sets off an exhilarating adrenaline rush which assists the body in response to threat and readies us to flee or fight. The problem is that this same adrenaline rush can cause us to be immobilized if we fail to flee or mount a successful defense. You may well be adept at stand up, clinch and ground and still react negatively to the potentialy immobilizing effects of self created adrenaline.
To better prepare for actual self defense we must activate the parasympathetic nervous which serves to calm us down. In karate we call this reaching a state of mushin, a calm and relaxed mind... which has the effect of supercharging the parasympathic nervous system. The person who wins the fight wins as a direct result of psychological preperation which enables him to maintain a mental advantage throughout the confrontation. True, realistic practice helps.
Bruce Lee used the phrase " repose in the nothing" to refer also to that state of non interference in which the mind is free to respond, not simply as a stand up fighter, as you would have us beleive, not as a grappler, but able to use what works.

So you see there is something else to fighting. Don't limit your self to what you already know. For example I have read other posts in which you seem to know little about me. Empty your cup. It is not a good thing Mr. Kogas, to form contempt for someone you have never met. Be happy. Contempt is for loosers.

Jerry Beasley, Ed.D.

Black Belt Magazine Hall of Fame:
Bruce Lee 1972
Dan Inosanto 1977
Joe Lewis 1986
Daniel Lee 1988
Richard Bustillo 1989
Dr. Jerry Beasley 2000

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#135333 - 09/30/04 06:01 PM Re: What its all about
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Aikia:


Mr.Kogas,
Not so fast grasshopper.
Self defense may be more about mentality than physicality.
[/QUOTE]


But Doctor Beasely, this type of physicality CREATES the proper mentality. The two are linked. Surely you'd know that however.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Aikia:

According to cardiologist Dr.James O'Keefe, activation of what is called the sympathetic nervous system sets off an exhilarating adrenaline rush which assists the body in response to threat and readies us to flee or fight. The problem is that this same adrenaline rush can cause us to be immobilized if we fail to flee or mount a successful defense. You may well be adept at stand up, clinch and ground and still react negatively to the potentialy immobilizing effects of self created adrenaline.
[/QUOTE]

This is precisely why the experience of "what is" is so important.


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Aikia:

To better prepare for actual self defense we must activate the parasympathetic nervous which serves to calm us down.
[/QUOTE]

How would you suggest we do this, through "fantasy based" martial arts? The answer is obvious here Doctor Beasely.


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Aikia:

In karate we call this reaching a state of mushin, a calm and relaxed mind... which has the effect of supercharging the parasympathic nervous system. The person who wins the fight wins as a direct result of psychological preperation which enables him to maintain a mental advantage throughout the confrontation. True, realistic practice helps.
Bruce Lee used the phrase " repose in the nothing" to refer also to that state of non interference in which the mind is free to respond, not simply as a stand up fighter, as you would have us beleive, not as a grappler, but able to use what works.
[/QUOTE]

But of course Doctor Beaseley, no one is suggesting otherwise. The idea is just to gather experience of the what is. Certainly everything is trained together for the purpose of developing the adaptable fighter -- not just the stand-up fight OR the grappler.


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Aikia:

So you see there is something else to fighting. Don't limit your self to what you already know. For example I have read other posts in which you seem to know little about me. Empty your cup. It is not a good thing Mr. Kogas, to form contempt for someone you have never met. Be happy. Contempt is for loosers.
[/QUOTE]

I understand where you're coming from Doctor Beaseley. The contempt wasn't TOTAL simply BECAUSE I didn't/don't know you that well. However, it was based upon the knowledge that I had of you at the time. Perhaps that will change from getting to know you better here. I do reserve the right to change my mind.

But karate uniforms and JKD???? [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]

Come now.

And I certainly don't limit myself to what I know. Rest assured of that.

Jerry Beasley, Ed.D.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Aikia:

Black Belt Magazine Hall of Fame:
Bruce Lee 1972
Dan Inosanto 1977
Joe Lewis 1986
Daniel Lee 1988
Richard Bustillo 1989
Dr. Jerry Beasley 2000

[/QUOTE]

Must there be blantant self-promotion though after every post?


-John

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#135334 - 09/30/04 10:10 PM Re: What its all about
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by JKogas:
Must there be blantant self-promotion though after every post?


-John

[/QUOTE]

Yes, all published "martial artists" must promote themselves. Truly I just don't believe in being trained en masse. This theory bipasses Bruce's own training style, which should be emulated... to a point. Bruce never had many students at the same time, let alone a Dojo full of mimicing "artists" who are "practicing" "martial arts" ... Sure, in Dojos, as such, they learn basic punches and kicks, and how to put them together in Katas, but what happens when the person or people move away from what they were trained to do? This is blaitantly ignoring Bruce's own plea agaist teaching what "should be". As I stated in a previous post, training should be much more personalized, and NOT publicized.

But as a side note, JKogas, I even wear some karate atire to train in... its jsut more comfortable. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

Second side note - Aikia - I have no problem with you, personally, just the style by which you pass on knowledge. I do however agree with most of your above statement, for the sole reason that, I train with, well, the forest behind my house. And, I have not much "formal" dojo training (hence... no belts). But, do to stern observation and alot of reflex training I have beat 2nd and 3rd degree blackbelts (yes, trainers) in Tae Kwon Do and Karate. So, I do agree with what you said about skill, just not your approach on teaching/training.

PS: I had to pick on you for the mini-commercial [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

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#135335 - 10/01/04 12:46 PM Re: What its all about
Anonymous
Unregistered


John,
Please forgive my little "nip" at you. I have now had time to read other posts by you and find that we agree on much. Somehow years ago I got "earmarked" as JKD by the media who learned they could count on me to turn out a quick and accurate, and sometimes challanging article. I never intended to become known as a JKD instructor.
When the oppurtunity to make videos came along the producer wanted JKD. My series is about what I know best, full contact stand up fighting. In my small world fighting is just fighting. I have sparred experts in OJKD,JKDC, karate, kickboxing, wing chun, savate, boxing, tae kwon do etc. Regardless of what term they use to label their art a punch is only a punch , a kick is only a kick. Either you know defense or you get hit.
Just as Bruce Lee always refered to his style/base art as Gung Fu, I have always felt comfortable with the term "karate". My martial arts "hero" in the 1970's was karate/kickboxing champion Joe Lewis. Joe doesn't teach anything like classical/traditional karate. His clientel are primarily "karate/TKD schools". So why not be at peace with the word. He trained with Bruce Lee and others.
When I was hired to write about JKD in 1981 I was taken in by the fact that no one seemed to know exactly what Bruce meant by phrases like "using no way as way" etc. I took on the task of discovering for myself the meaning and it took a long time. Along the way I coined the terms "original JKD" as a counter to the JKD concept. Bad idea. Now everyone seems caught up in taking sides. I have entered forums only in the last few weeks to tell readers the OJKD vs JKDC feud was a mistake.
In 1988 at our first "Karate College" summer camp most karateka seemed out of touch with ground fighting and clinch range ( which I have called trapboxing). Today most karate instructors are very comfortable rolling with Renzo Gracie in one class, boxing with Joe Lewis in the next class and still able to appreciate kata and bunkai. In America we have truly begun to use all arts as our art.
As you may have pointed out in other posts the real difference can be found in those who feel comfortable in the ring or on the mat with full contact and those who are content to enjoy training without actually getting hit. Both sides have merit ( that is what my reply noted).
Jerry Beasley

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#135336 - 10/01/04 04:57 PM Re: What its all about
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Aikia:
John,
Please forgive my little "nip" at you. I have now had time to read other posts by you and find that we agree on much.
[/QUOTE]

Awesome. Thatís good to see every once in awhile.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Aikia:

Somehow years ago I got "earmarked" as JKD by the media who learned they could count on me to turn out a quick and accurate, and sometimes challanging article. I never intended to become known as a JKD instructor.
When the oppurtunity to make videos came along the producer wanted JKD. My series is about what I know best, full contact stand up fighting. In my small world fighting is just fighting. I have sparred experts in OJKD,JKDC, karate, kickboxing, wing chun, savate, boxing, tae kwon do etc. Regardless of what term they use to label their art a punch is only a punch , a kick is only a kick. Either you know defense or you get hit.
[/QUOTE]

Exactly! I couldnít agree more. I my world, fighting is just fighting as well. There are no styles.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Aikia:

Just as Bruce Lee always refered to his style/base art as Gung Fu, I have always felt comfortable with the term "karate". My martial arts "hero" in the 1970's was karate/kickboxing champion Joe Lewis. Joe doesn't teach anything like classical/traditional karate. His clientel are primarily "karate/TKD schools". So why not be at peace with the word. He trained with Bruce Lee and others.
[/QUOTE]

I agree, the word is not the thing. Iíve actually met and trained with Joe Lewis and I know a couple of his black belts. They can fight! I agree that Joe doesnít teach traditional karate, as neither did Allen Branch when I knew him. Iím knew some of Joeís guys in the area but Iíve not kept up with them. Its been a while.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Aikia:

When I was hired to write about JKD in 1981 I was taken in by the fact that no one seemed to know exactly what Bruce meant by phrases like "using no way as way" etc. I took on the task of discovering for myself the meaning and it took a long time. Along the way I coined the terms "original JKD" as a counter to the JKD concept. Bad idea. Now everyone seems caught up in taking sides. I have entered forums only in the last few weeks to tell readers the OJKD vs JKDC feud was a mistake.
[/QUOTE]

I agree. There is only JKD. Iím with you so far.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Aikia:

In 1988 at our first "Karate College" summer camp most karateka seemed out of touch with ground fighting and clinch range ( which I have called trapboxing). Today most karate instructors are very comfortable rolling with Renzo Gracie in one class, boxing with Joe Lewis in the next class and still able to appreciate kata and bunkai. In America we have truly begun to use all arts as our art.
As you may have pointed out in other posts the real difference can be found in those who feel comfortable in the ring or on the mat with full contact and those who are content to enjoy training without actually getting hit. Both sides have merit ( that is what my reply noted).
Jerry Beasley
[/QUOTE]

Excellent post Dr. Beasley. I happen to agree completely with your stance. This is truly good news. The truth is out there. I look forward to more correspondence.


-John

[This message has been edited by JKogas (edited 10-01-2004).]

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