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#135249 - 09/02/04 03:16 PM Deflecting
Anonymous
Unregistered


Has anyone used delflecting techniques(Pak Sau, Bong Sau) in a fight or during sparring?
I was trying to use them last night but I was getting schooled. Any thoughts?

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#135250 - 09/02/04 04:38 PM Re: Deflecting
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Nope. I studied those techniques for years and they ALWAYS came apart during vale tudo sparring. The basic problem with these techniques is that they put the body out of good posture. Too really make something like that work, you'd need the speed of Bruce Lee.

Simpler is always better. Basic boxing defense such as the catch, parry, slipping and covering work much better defensively and leave you in better posture from which to counter-punch against skilled opponents.


-John

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#135251 - 09/03/04 08:45 AM Re: Deflecting
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks a lot JKogas. You just reinforced what I already thought. If you have the time could you expand on what you mean by the catch, parry, slipping etc.

P.S. what is the difference between sparring and Vale Tudo sparring?

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#135252 - 09/25/04 02:08 AM Re: Deflecting
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
The reason that these techniques dont work is becaused the purpose behind them is often taught incorrectly. Most Wing Chun teaches that the movements are blocking techniques. Pak Sao is taught as a thrust, which is incorrect. The reason why is because it is against Wing Chun philosophy to exert energy by trying to out force your opponent. The moves are defensive in nature but not as blocking techniques. When used with a stepping movement the moves are used as slipping techniques.

Example: Your squared up in whatever stance your using, and working towards your opponent's outside, he strikes, you use Bong Sao to slip to the outside as you step forward and attack.

Pak Sao is great for slipping the jab if you step back. The object of Pak Sao and Bong Sao and other movements in Wing Chun are used for REDIRECTION not impact or force while speaking of defense.

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#135253 - 09/25/04 07:08 AM Re: Deflecting
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Then you can call ANYTHING a "pak sao". In boxing that's something we call a parry. We use it to help slip a jab (or cross even). We just don't see the need to use foreign terminology.

But in wing chun and JKD, I've ALWAYS seen the pak sao used to "trap" the arm after a lead arm block (which no really GOOD fighter is going to use). Then they shuffle in to hit.

-John

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#135254 - 09/28/04 10:31 AM Re: Deflecting
Anonymous
Unregistered


Err, I don't think the pak-sao is a trap. It is an open hand slap re-directing your oppnent's energy.

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#135255 - 09/28/04 05:01 PM Re: Deflecting
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Beg to differ --

It's used as both. I've seen it used to trap an opponent's arm against his body. Of course this WAS just a demonstration -- as most compound trapping is performed within.


-John

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#135256 - 09/28/04 05:07 PM Re: Deflecting
1st Round KO Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/11/04
Posts: 1497
Loc: New York City, USA
ive never heard of pak sao but it sounds like you guys are talking about "passing" ??? am i right or way off ?

if youre talking about passing then i disagree that they should not be used as i find them a basic tool for countering....i think you guys are probably talking about something else.

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#135257 - 09/29/04 12:20 PM Re: Deflecting
Anonymous
Unregistered


To trap an opponent's arm against his body is a phon sao, it is open hand but with the fingers curled, cupping if you will.
You curl your fingers so you do not lose grip. It would be tough to pin someone's arm with an open hand.
A pak sao is a specific technique.

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#135258 - 09/29/04 06:03 PM Re: Deflecting
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Well you see, thats the problem of using (foreign) terminology.

Ever see a double pak sao? Notice how its done?


-John

[This message has been edited by JKogas (edited 09-29-2004).]

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