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#135137 - 08/21/04 12:33 AM Savate's low leg attack as described in Tao of JKD
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Ive been away for the past six days on a trip to for a match. Lately I have been practicing the kick in the topic and doubting its effectiveness. I went on to the match and used the technique a few times. I found that, at least for me, that its a completely useless technique. Heres why: When thrown from the rear leg it has power, but its telegraphed. When it comes from the lead leg it has speed but very little power. And the biggest reason to ditch this technique: Balance. When executed, the practitionerleans backwards, so as to attack almost in an upwards motion. However when you try to do this, your center of balance is off making it easy to trip, shove or rush and tackle. Also it leaves the groin wide open. Try performing the attack and guarding the groin at the same time; your arm isnt long enough to adequately guard from a hard kick. Another technique dropped from the curriculum.

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#135138 - 08/21/04 01:33 AM Re: Savate's low leg attack as described in Tao of JKD
Anonymous
Unregistered


Im not exactly sure, but are you talking about low roundhouse, leg attacks?

If so, then I was just thinking about how effective this was tonight. Well, actually it was more thinking that it is very effective and that I should train to use it more often. Heres what sparked my thought earlier.

A K-1 match between Bob Sapp and Ernesto Houst(sp). If you know anything about K-1 at all, then you know who Bob Sapp is. Ernesto Houst is probably half the size of Bob Sapp, and was able to render Sapp's front leg useless. I say useless in every sense of the word; Sapp had to be
carried off after the fight (literally). Granted, the fight was called in Sapps favor because his barrage of super-human strength punches left Houst standing, but un-aware of his location.


Anyway, the point is that the kicks are useful. If you saw that fight and watched Bob Sapp beingcarried out of the ring, I think you’d have to agree.

Here's a pic of the two fighting. You can see that Sapp is so worried about getting hit in one of his ribs that he's allowing the head shots. The reason his rib was broken was because he was worried about his damaged front left leg and cought an excellent body shot. http://ko.sherdog.com/viewpics.cfm?pic=/pictures/k1_120702/Hoost%20Sapp.jpg

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#135139 - 08/21/04 07:28 AM Re: Savate's low leg attack as described in Tao of JKD
DragonFire1134 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 1479
Loc: Theodore (mobile), Alabama
[QUOTE]Originally posted by OklahomasGreg:
Im not exactly sure, but are you talking about low roundhouse, leg attacks?

If so, then I was just thinking about how effective this was tonight. Well, actually it was more thinking that it is very effective and that I should train to use it more often. Heres what sparked my thought earlier.

A K-1 match between Bob Sapp and Ernesto Houst(sp). If you know anything about K-1 at all, then you know who Bob Sapp is. Ernesto Houst is probably half the size of Bob Sapp, and was able to render Sapp's front leg useless. I say useless in every sense of the word; Sapp had to be
carried off after the fight (literally). Granted, the fight was called in Sapps favor because his barrage of super-human strength punches left Houst standing, but un-aware of his location.


Anyway, the point is that the kicks are useful. If you saw that fight and watched Bob Sapp beingcarried out of the ring, I think you’d have to agree.

Here's a pic of the two fighting. You can see that Sapp is so worried about getting hit in one of his ribs that he's allowing the head shots. The reason his rib was broken was because he was worried about his damaged front left leg and cought an excellent body shot. http://ko.sherdog.com/viewpics.cfm?pic=/pictures/k1_120702/Hoost%20Sapp.jpg
[/QUOTE]

Yes I seen that match. I enjoyed it, but i'm a little biased since I always root for the little man! Houst actualy isn't that little, just in contrast to the Beast! To me Sapp is a terrible fighter! He is more just a brawler much like Tyson was, except Sapp would tire out quickly...you could see him huffing and puffing big time! The low line kick worked perfectly in that situation, but there is a time a place for that sort of thing, you know.

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#135140 - 08/21/04 06:34 PM Re: Savate's low leg attack as described in Tao of JKD
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
[QUOTE]Originally posted by OklahomasGreg:
Im not exactly sure, but are you talking about low roundhouse, leg attacks?
[/QUOTE]

This wasnt what I was reffering to. I often use low roundhouse attacks. The kick I was reffering to was the one on page 78 in the Tao of Jeet Kune Do. If you have the book you can clearly see that the attackers balance is off and also that his guard is poor. Also the footwork is limited when committed to this attack. Its more like a low thrust kick but at a curved angle. When performed the attacker leans back and shoots the leg forward, usually the rear leg, and his foot faces the outside of his body. Leaving very much to be desired in defense.

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#135141 - 08/22/04 06:44 AM Re: Savate's low leg attack as described in Tao of JKD
Tom2199 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/18/04
Posts: 834
Loc: England
yeah i see what you mean, it would have to be executed pretty quickly too - i dont think it would be very effective for me to use in a real life situation unless it was very low

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#135142 - 09/08/04 03:36 PM Re: Savate's low leg attack as described in Tao of JKD
Anonymous
Unregistered


In the lead leg version (if this is the kick I'm thinking of)your power comes from using the kick as a stop kick, using your opponents
forward motion against him.
In the rear leg version you just have to get real close and be very careful.
I have used these kicks(especialy the lead leg version)very effectively during sparring though never in a real fight(Idon't get in many fights).

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#135143 - 09/25/04 01:55 AM Re: Savate's low leg attack as described in Tao of JKD
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Stormdragon:
In the lead leg version (if this is the kick I'm thinking of)your power comes from using the kick as a stop kick, using your opponents
forward motion against him.
In the rear leg version you just have to get real close and be very careful.
I have used these kicks(especialy the lead leg version)very effectively during sparring though never in a real fight(Idon't get in many fights).
[/QUOTE]

I have since developed a singular use for it, but its only been used in sparring. Its a stop hit technique. I dont use many of them at a low level, instead relying on footwork and striking.

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#135144 - 03/28/05 12:55 PM Re: Savate's low leg attack as described in Tao of JKD
Anonymous
Unregistered


i would agree this kick is called an oblique kick usually an i would try using the lead leg version for a stop kick but i disagree on the rear leg version argument, its very effective if your in close an you commite to the moveent. the filipino's call this kick sipa and its used primarily for breaking the knee or shin bone. try this modification use it in close with commitment or use it when in trapping or grappling range.

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#135145 - 03/30/05 12:07 AM Re: Savate's low leg attack as described in Tao of JKD
Anonymous
Unregistered


The rear leg kick is the most used kick in MMA matches. It's not a defensive kick. It's used to punish your opponents legs or body.

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#135146 - 04/01/05 03:58 PM Re: Savate's low leg attack as described in Tao of JKD
Anonymous
Unregistered


Wing Chun has a kick like this. Its done with an upright structure in close range, usually after contact has been made. Main target knee.

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#135147 - 04/01/05 05:12 PM Re: Savate's low leg attack as described in Tao of JKD
Anonymous
Unregistered


This a great kick to grab someones attention. it is fast and usually unseen from the front leg. Used to attack the shin bone. If you have ever been kicked there it hurts... This kick when used like this will give enough distraction to open opponent up for other methods of attack. This kick is also used to attack to the knee cap, right where the cap meets the shin.

I was taught this kick and enjoy using it in fighting.

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#135148 - 04/02/05 12:28 AM Re: Savate's low leg attack as described in Tao of JKD
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
But what real benefit does it have over a roundhouse fron or side kick? What makes it a better, or more productive option? Other than fixing something that isnt broken, it doesnt seem like it offers anything that isnt already covered quite effectively.

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#135149 - 04/04/05 06:17 AM Re: Savate's low leg attack as described in Tao of JKD
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well the directness and speed of the move itself... At least I think.

I find it quite usefull. I don't use it for power or to break something. But for distraction and harrasing. :-p

If you close in on your opponent and he wants to swing and you see it. You use the kick to distract him. (and you dodge his attack because ur leaning back. Often seen in Gung Fu movies).

If you watch Si Gung Lee's movies you can see he almost every time uses it for distraction or putting the opponent off balance.

But still, if the technique isn't working for YOU... Then discard it. That's the philosophy of JKD.

Grtz Randy

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#135150 - 04/05/05 02:32 PM Re: Savate's low leg attack as described in Tao of JKD
Anonymous
Unregistered


you have to understand the rules of savate, no kicking with shins, only with the foot, thats why the kick is the way it is. i personly would not kick like that.

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#135151 - 04/05/05 08:00 PM Re: Savate's low leg attack as described in Tao of JKD
Anonymous
Unregistered


I actually used that kick (the oblique kick) in my last sparring round with great effect. The problem is probably that you are not understanding the purpose of the kick. It basically has no range, from either leg, and if you are having trouble with an opponent exploiting you during the kick, you simply aren't doing it fast enough. This kick is great from trapping range, and can also used with an opponent who has indeed stepped in too close as a stopping hit. I found it extremely effective close in with my rear leg to the opponents knee, followed by a lead jab or backfist. They key to using the kick is developing the speed, and following up with other attacks.

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#135152 - 04/08/05 11:42 AM Re: Savate's low leg attack as described in Tao of JKD
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Its decent for rushing in with while going high with the fists, and every now and then as a stop hit.

I see its merit as a technique, for others. Personally, I prefer a knee stomp or a shin scrape. As for stop hitting the kick, Id rather let the opponent fire it off.

Few reasons, first being that a solid punch is more effective. Also, since Ive been doing more grappling, Id rather dodge and trap you up and put you on the ground hard. Its easy if the opponent is already off balnce for you.

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#135153 - 04/08/05 03:53 PM Re: Savate's low leg attack as described in Tao of JKD
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thinking about, one reason this technique works well for me might be my height. My long legs allow a little bit more range, and more whip for power. No idea how effective this one is for the shorter crowd, except that my 5'10 instructor can really make the shins sting with this one.

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#135154 - 05/04/05 06:40 AM Re: Savate's low leg attack as described in Tao of JKD [Re: Chen Zen]
Dauragon c mikado Offline


Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 1246
Loc: Oxford, England
i know the kick your talking about. i find it effective for stopping low kicks, intercepting when the opponent advances or doing something neat like doing the savate kick then pivoting into a roundhouse. the tao, great book learned alot from it.
_________________________
The way of the warrior is a resolute acceptance of death. -Musashi

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#135155 - 05/05/05 12:57 AM Re: Savate's low leg attack as described in Tao of JKD [Re: Chen Zen]
sjd Offline
Stranger

Registered: 05/05/05
Posts: 2
the kick u are referring must be used in conjunction with the strike coming towards u and in perfect timing.
it is quite obvious that u cannot use the kick when someone does a round house kick. that low kick is purposely aimed to literally stop the opponent before he/she delivers the strike/kick. It is purposely aimed down at the knee cap before its being lifted up. before an opponent/offender executes a roundhouse you can stop him during that time not when its in the air. And most round house kicks will need to take a moment just before it can be executed. Such as the offender needs to step back, lift his leg up and then executes. If he/she does step back and turns to deliver a round house kick, you kick him/her in the butt with effectiveness.

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#135156 - 05/05/05 08:50 AM Re: Savate's low leg attack as described in Tao of JKD [Re: sjd]
Neonomide Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/05
Posts: 37
Loc: Finland
Sorry for asking, but is this the low kick technique that Lee does repeatedly in Way of the Dragon against Chuck Norris? Not that I know more than you do, but Lee seemed to use it at least for maiming.
_________________________
Low aim is the highest crime a man has. Self-imposed limits affect your work, morality, everything.

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#135157 - 05/07/05 12:32 PM Re: Savate's low leg attack as described in Tao of JKD [Re: Chen Zen]
etaks86 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/14/05
Posts: 161
i'm not sure what kick your talking about but i have one in mind and if it's the one i have in mind then i've used it sparring with my brother before. i used it to stop side and front kicks and it works alright for me but for it to work good you should be very fast with your legs and it helps if your faster then the person your fighting. if it's the one i'm thinking of then you kick your foot out on or above the other person's right before or right when they start to kick. it's a stop hit. but if i'm wrong and it's not the one i'm thinking of then i'm sorry. either way, maybe i helped in some way for some one.

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