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#135001 - 08/13/04 12:58 AM Your Own Way or No Way
Anonymous
Unregistered


JKD can be at least four different things: (that I know of)

1. "Traditional" JKD, Wing Chun wihtout the forms and influences from Savate, boxing, fencing etc

2. Lee's minimalist approach, using what he thought was useful, but more adaptable than the above

3. A concept that all MA's can use to better their art.

4. The modern day interpretation of 2., that is what John Kogas for example does.

Does anyone see the value in becoming a purveyor of systems and techniques, until they build their own "way of no way"? I think the problem is you could practice for 30 years and still be in the dark about many effective techniques or principles.

Like has been said in many other posts in other forums, I would combine the arts which I see as the most able to cover as many bases as possible - JKD as in 4., Shaui Chao and Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu. Then I would change it to what I saw as the most effective.

Would anyone add firearms, baton or handcuffs training to this list?

Or is it more useful to use your own style as a vehicle, use techniques from elsewhere yuo like and use the JKD principles as a guidebook?

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#135002 - 08/13/04 11:03 AM Re: Your Own Way or No Way
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mark Hill:
JKD can be at least four different things: (that I know of)

1. "Traditional" JKD, Wing Chun wihtout the forms and influences from Savate, boxing, fencing etc

2. Lee's minimalist approach, using what he thought was useful, but more adaptable than the above

3. A concept that all MA's can use to better their art.

4. The modern day interpretation of 2., that is what John Kogas for example does.

Does anyone see the value in becoming a purveyor of systems and techniques, until they build their own "way of no way"? I think the problem is you could practice for 30 years and still be in the dark about many effective techniques or principles.

Like has been said in many other posts in other forums, I would combine the arts which I see as the most able to cover as many bases as possible - JKD as in 4., Shaui Chao and Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu. Then I would change it to what I saw as the most effective.

Would anyone add firearms, baton or handcuffs training to this list?

Or is it more useful to use your own style as a vehicle, use techniques from elsewhere yuo like and use the JKD principles as a guidebook?
[/QUOTE]

I think this isnt so much a seperation of JKD but a 4 step process to learning JKD. I went threw all four of the processes mentioned. Eventually I broke away from school, as I mentioned in another post, and went my own way. Now I choose to apply JKD to things that I feel suit my style instead of going and learning a set system or style. I borrow from tons, but in true JKD fashion, its very minimal borrowing small things here and there. Sometimes single techniques. If anything the only "whole system" I use is western boxing. And thats only technique, I dont choose to borrow their stance or their footwork.

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#135003 - 08/13/04 05:28 PM Re: Your Own Way or No Way
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mark Hill:

JKD can be at least four different things: (that I know of)

Does anyone see the value in becoming a purveyor of systems and techniques, until they build their own "way of no way"? I think the problem is you could practice for 30 years and still be in the dark about many effective techniques or principles.
[/QUOTE]

That’s the problem with becoming obsessed about “techniques” as so many martial artists are. The way many people look at “training” is, they get together to “learn some new techniques”. They often will get together, practice these new techniques in a static manner against a cooperative opponent, and go home. That’s what they call training. I say this because I’ve not only seen this happen myself – I’ve DONE it that way myself long ago. I still see it happen. People are just suckers for techniques and in many people’s eyes, the more the better. That may make a person a walking encyclopedia of techniques, but it does NOT make a person a competent fighter. Those are two completely different things.

But assembling a massive collection of techniques isn’t what JKD is about anyway, because, JKD isn’t a product, but a process. A process of discovering what is useful and, more specifically, what is useful against non-compliant/resisting opponents. To discover this in an efficient manner, you have to train with aliveness. This can be done from day one.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mark Hill:

Would anyone add firearms, baton or handcuffs training to this list?
[/QUOTE]

You could add anything you wanted, so long as it’s trained in as realistic a manner as possible.


-John

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#135004 - 08/17/04 12:36 AM Re: Your Own Way or No Way
Anonymous
Unregistered


i have an idea. why dont we get all the masters of all the MA in the world bring to a 1-2 year program where they show what they find that works in there art an make a new art of all the arts. like Babalon in the bible with the languages but do it with the martial arts an call it Jeet Kune Do.

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#135005 - 08/17/04 04:01 AM Re: Your Own Way or No Way
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Because JKD isn't a product (as you're simply trying to imply). JKD is a PROCESS for the individual. What "works" for someone else may not work for "me" or for you for that matter.

Doing what you describe would be an exercise in futility as well as being completely against what JKD is all about anyway.

Not that you care, you're just another mindless moron trying to start sh*t . YOU are the reason such a thing wouldn't work. YOU are the reason why JKD isn't for the masses.

-John

[This message has been edited by JKogas (edited 08-17-2004).]

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#135006 - 08/17/04 06:23 AM Re: Your Own Way or No Way
Anonymous
Unregistered


John,

A person with no obvious impairment should be able to use all techniques - if it doesn't work, it hasn't been trained well enough right?

But some are more efficient than others....

You say it is a process, but think others finding what works for them, or surveying as much as possible before integrating it into "truth in combat" is futile. Why?

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#135007 - 08/17/04 05:30 PM Re: Your Own Way or No Way
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mark Hill:


John,

A person with no obvious impairment should be able to use all techniques - if it doesn't work, it hasn't been trained well enough right?
[/QUOTE]

It's all about attributes.

A guy who stands 6'5" and weighs 350 pounds simply won't be able to do things that a guy half that size can do and vice versa.

For example, most big guys aren't good kickers. Sure, they can kick to some degree as everyone can. But, kicking is really a smaller mans game. Why? Because of physics. A larger mass is slower to move. Does that mean that the big guy can't kick? Not really, but it very well COULD mean that he SHOULDN'T.

I don't have the hand speed that Bruce Lee purportedly had. He could make things work that I wouldn't have a chance in HELL of making work -- all because of attributes.

This could be expanded on indefinitely.


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mark Hill:

You say it is a process, but think others finding what works for them, or surveying as much as possible before integrating it into "truth in combat" is futile. Why?
[/QUOTE]

I was only referring to dongamongo's example. You HAVE to discover what works for you, the individual. That takes time to do and that is a process.

-John

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