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#134398 - 02/19/05 06:04 PM The curse of Brazilian Jujutsu
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi to all. I’d like to share with you my opinion on what I call “the BJJ curse” or “the swarm of PitBoys”. I’m sure all of you have heard of the Gracie family and their style of fighting, called Brazilian Jujutsu. Here in Brazil, it’s called simply Jiu-Jitsu and it became the hippest thing a few years ago, when the Gracie family started winning everything with their impressive fighting style. This led to a sad social phenomenon here in Brazil. All the bullies chose Jiu-Jitsu as their weapon of choice. Soon, the results could be seen on the nightclubs and bars all over the country. (Quick note: here, the primary concern about young violence is not high-school bulling. For the less privileged ones, aka the poor and miserable, the problem is gangs. Real gangs, with crimelords and the like, not wannabe teenage punks. For the middle-class and above, the danger lies on the nightlife, since kids can go out, get drunk on nightclubs and bars and get into “fights”. Rarely one on one, usually against a dozen of trolls.) Well, it was bad enough when the Trolls were out to get you. It got worse when the Trolls learned Jiu-Jitsu. The media named those playful teenagers “PitBoys”, cuz around the same period, the Pit Bull dogs were also overexposed by the media, wrongly accused of being “killer dogs”. A PitBoy is exactly the kind of person who is pejoratively called a PitBoy, but is too dumb to know what pejoratively means, and is proud being called that. One can say they are the Brazilian version on teenage high school gangs. Kids who fight (and commit other crimes) not because they have to, but simple because they can.

So, my point is: BJJ is bad, and the whole Gracie family should be castrated, right? WRONG. I deeply respect jujutsu, recognizing it’s an ancient fighting art, as respectable as Karate, TKD, JKD, Kung Fu, etc. The Gracie family (at least the ones I saw exposed on TV and magazines) has shown to have responsible athletes and skillful martial artists. My issue is with responsibility. Not only from the MA students, but especially from MA instructors. Violent patterns of behavior can be easily identified in students, and it’s sad that some instructors don’t consider themselves responsible for what happens outside the dojo. Even if someone considers martial arts only as the ability of kicking ass, punching through skulls and breaking bones, for god’s sake, you’re teaching people how to kick ass, punch through skulls and break bones!!! Doesn’t that tell you something?!?!? Isn’t important to also teach something about character? About values?
It might be hard to follow my line of thinking, since is not much of a line (also English is my 2nd language, sorry about any grammar/spelling errors). The point I’m making is that martial arts isn’t some sport, some PE activity. Is much more than that. It’s a place where you learn to defend yourself, usually hurting other people on the process. It’s a place of pain, blood and sometimes death. A soccer coach doesn’t need to tell his athletes not to kick people on the head. A basketball coach doesn’t tell his team “don’t go dunking people on trash cans!” This is why I defend it’s necessary a philosophy behind any MA training. Instructors are somewhat responsible for what happens when a student misuses any martial arts technique. If not, we can have another PitBoy swarm anywhere on the globe.


PS: when re-reading my post, I couldn’t find a reason or any rational explanation to post this. I think it’s just something I had to spit out. Hope I spitted on the right place.

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#134399 - 02/19/05 06:11 PM Re: The curse of Brazilian Jujutsu
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well... if they all learned Muay Thai and beat folks up would you blame Thailand? Or mebbe blame monks if they sported kung fu? I'm not insulting your post, simply trying to maintain a counter point. Violent people will be violent, MA or none.

So were people just appearing in hospitals with shattered ankles and elbows or what? I will admit that warrants looking at, but can we blame jiu jitsu or the Gracies?

Lastly, you use better spelling and grammar than many native English speakers on these public boards!

- Op. Skinny Ninja

[This message has been edited by OperationSkinnyNinja (edited 02-19-2005).]

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#134400 - 02/19/05 06:12 PM Re: The curse of Brazilian Jujutsu
Anonymous
Unregistered


RoninBR,
Thank you for sharing your opinion and perspective.

oldman

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#134401 - 02/19/05 06:18 PM Re: The curse of Brazilian Jujutsu
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by OperationSkinnyNinja:
Well... if they all learned Muay Thai and beat folks up would you blame Thailand? Or mebbe blame monks if they sported kung fu? I'm not insulting your post, simply trying to maintain a counter point. Violent people will be violent, MA or none.

So were people just appearing in hospitals with shattered ankles and elbows or what? I will admit that warrants looking at, but can we blame jiu jitsu or the Gracies?

- Op. Skinny Ninja
[/QUOTE]

ninja,

hows life at the rock?

oldman

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#134402 - 02/19/05 06:44 PM Re: The curse of Brazilian Jujutsu
Anonymous
Unregistered


I agree with OSNinja.

Violent people will find a way to express their tendencies, regardless of the enviroment.

I also agree that your English puts to shame many of the native posters here!

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#134403 - 02/19/05 07:37 PM Re: The curse of Brazilian Jujutsu
senseilou Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2082
Loc: Glendale, Az.
A story first..............(I know you guys hate my stories but)I studied with one of the Gracies Brothers students from Brazil. He was in the country about a month and a guy got in his face at the mall, and said lets take it outside. When they got outside the store, My BJJ instrucotr when at him. The guy meant outside, outside, not outside the store. My Instructor mounted him and was beating the hell out of him, and the security cops(took 3) to get him off the guy. He was promptly arrested and put in jail. He didn't understand why, in Brazil the fight would have come to a finish, and most likely, no interference. No matter who started the fight, when police see a guy on top of someone, raining shots and choking the hell out of them, they become the agressor. My Instructor told me of times people in Brazil would fight over the sneakers one was wearing, especially if they are Air Nike. Fighting over shoes, in this country can not be fathomed. I am not taking the post as a criticism of Brazil, rather a different perspective on Brazillian Jujutsu. According to the Instructor I had, He says the idea of a fight is different there. I am sure there are those who like to start fights to see how talented they are, but that happended in Okinawa too. Challenges were issued all the time. SO why is that different? I think the post is about how a culture approaches their art, not so much a criticism. My Instructor, years after the incident and being in this country never understood why he was arrested, he didn't do anything wrong. Here it was wrong, there in Brazil, it was a badge of honor to fight and win.

What BJJ has brought to this country is the need for groundwork, but anyone who trained back in the late 80's early 90's have seen a real different approach today. I have seen American version of "PitBoys" guys who think they wrestle, and freestyle strike and can take any Martial Artist alive. Its about how people train, some train a little and talk alot, some actually train in the art. So it can happen anywhere, but I think this was about the way the art is done in Brazil and what has resulted, warning us that it can happen here as well.

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#134404 - 02/21/05 08:51 AM Re: The curse of Brazilian Jujutsu
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by OperationSkinnyNinja:
Well... if they all learned Muay Thai and beat folks up would you blame Thailand? Or mebbe blame monks if they sported kung fu? I'm not insulting your post, simply trying to maintain a counter point. Violent people will be violent, MA or none.

So were people just appearing in hospitals with shattered ankles and elbows or what? I will admit that warrants looking at, but can we blame jiu jitsu or the Gracies?

Lastly, you use better spelling and grammar than many native English speakers on these public boards!

- Op. Skinny Ninja

[This message has been edited by OperationSkinnyNinja (edited 02-19-2005).]
[/QUOTE]

i guess i didn't made my point correctly... I don't blame the gracies for anything, on contrary, like i said on the 2nd paragraph, I think the gracie take their art very seriously and responsibly. my target isn't the Gracies or jujustu, for that matter. My criticism goes to MA instructors in general, the ones that have no responsability for what they're teaching. (once more, to empashise, I never trained with the Gracies, so I'm not pointing fingers at them). I just mentioned the Graices to ilustrate what happened in Brazil. I know many jujutsu fighters that are the most gentle people on the world. What did happen, though, were gangs being form inside academies, sometimes with the aproval of the instructors, sometimes not. Jujutsu fighter became synonimous of Bully here in Brazil. And i'm sure it angers all the serious MAs, including the serious jujustsu fighters.

I'm questioning how far goes the responsability of an MA instructor, no particular interest on the Gracies or Jujutsu. I also agree that violent tendencies do show up no matter what, but being a psychology student, I also believe that they can be expressed in dedication for an MA, a devotion for an art or a job, even in love. I'm just saying that for some people MA is helping them express their agressivity on people's faces, rather than on something productive.

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#134405 - 02/22/05 05:04 PM Re: The curse of Brazilian Jujutsu
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well you can't blame them the Gracie Family.................. They aren't the ones that teaches these types of kids. There's is a;way going to be a few people in the world that will use martial arts for there own personally reasons..................

*Inuyasha*

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#134406 - 02/22/05 05:27 PM Re: The curse of Brazilian Jujutsu
Anonymous
Unregistered


About two weeks ago a female student teacher was working late at her school in Sacramento Ca. A 17-year-old kid tricked her into opening the door and he tried to rape her. Bad choice on his part. Seems the girl was 7th in tryouts for the female Olympic freestyle wrestling team and a BJJ student. She promptly closed with him and began to work him over. Seems the kid didn’t anticipate those results and ran off. (I think I read he was arrested a couple days ago). There are many articles in the papers and on the news about her and I keep seeing how she has empowered women. BJJ is like ant MA it all depends on what your intent is when you use it.

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#134407 - 02/22/05 09:07 PM Re: The curse of Brazilian Jujutsu
Anonymous
Unregistered


Yes, it is saddening to know right now, somewhere in that big MA world of ours, someone is learning something they most definitely should not.

I could be a complete buttmonkey, but if I maintain my composure and courtesy, bow on entering, always respect Sensei, then nobody knows a difference.

Lets just be glad most folks go home when they dont see their 24-hour Ninja dreams materialize. Or get that first big hit... thats always demoralizing as all hell.

But hey, in America, they get guns instead. We know all about that, dont we Oldman?

- Op. Skinny Ninja

[This message has been edited by OperationSkinnyNinja (edited 02-22-2005).]

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