[QUOTE]Originally posted by Midnightcrawler:
The way, is not a 'way of life' it's what you do in the dojo in your spare time. You, or anyone else cannot live that 'way of life'in modern society. Why? Because it is unrealistic in modern society,
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You are SO WRONG!! Going to work does not mean you cannot follow 'The way'.

Every second of the day you have choices - we all have to earn money. But you can choose to do a good job, to not get involved in office politics, to help those around you. To find the joy in a job - even a shite one!

[QUOTE]
When you bring up the subject of honour. This is something your parents should have taught you whilst you were still an infant or at least a young child, honour being the knowledge between right and wrong and electing to do the right thing, or taking a 'decent stance through life, (not a difficult choice) and by going to an outside organisation after your formative years, you are by implication being highly critical of your own parents.
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Highly critical of your own parents?!! What's wrong with that? Are your parents perfect? I have a friend who used to lock his son in a room each night to do his homework... What did that teach him??

You cannot choose your parents.

Parents DO NOT teach their children honour - honour is not choosing between right and wrong.

'doing the right thing' is life is NOT easy - how can you say such a thing??

[QUOTE]
If I were to be in your shoes What's in a Name, I would be very wary, and, very careful if you intend to continue in this unproven Coven. Some advice. LEAVE, DO IT NOW, before you are damaged beyond repair.
[/QUOTE]

Ridiculous. Damaged beyong repair!!? You are not basing your 'advice' on experience but on hearsay...

You and I live in very different worlds.

I am living life... I am not a customer of God.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by WhiteMask:
I am living life... I am not a customer of God.[/QUOTE]

What a provocative post. I recognise everything you have said. All the concepts are regurgitated from Bushido instructors and PD. Which is of course not a bad thing, if it was from an inspired/enlightened source. Which is, of course, down to opinion.

I recognise the critisism of parents. I heard the phrase "our parents are not perfect. But Bushido is the perfect family." Basically it is very variable how parents bring their kids up. And perhaps the members of Bushido are overrepresented by people with bad upbringing, if this kind of attitiude prevails. But i know that a family can only flourish in a nurturing, loving, protective environment. I certainly didn't feel that is what Bushido was about. And at times i felt it was contrary to it.

Why is there also this attitude that the way of Bushido is perfect? Surely it was a system which was designed for the feudal times - probably a lot of it was about social control. And caste systems (not good)... you can find good in anything. But don't assume that just because you've found some good in Bushido, that it is the alternative to the corrupt world around us. I agree that secular society has huge pitfalls and morality is going down the spout. But Bushido isn't the antidote. It's just another system of control.

Pete Delane was asked if Bushido is so good then what about the atrocities that went on in WWII? I'm sure this has been debated many times, but his reply was "The winds of the east chill only the minds of the west". Make of that what you will.

If you were being truly zennish(?) you would wake up and see BAMA for what it is. That doesn't mean you have to leave and slate the organisation. I was continuing for over a year as a "non-fanatic" because i no longer bought into the philosophy drivel. It very much teaches people to think in a certain way, and reproduce opinions, this message board testifys to that. Does it really teach you to be open minded? I used it to learn martial arts. And they were happy to take my money. But i had enough of submitting to Pete Delane's ideals. He is bitter about many things, and i'm sure that's because of his past.

This forum left a bitter taste in my mouth, and i left because i was open to the fact it was corrupt. If you're so dedicated and fanatical, having blind faith in the BAMA (which i definately used to have) then it certainly clouds your judgement.

Don't quite understand what you mean by not a "customer of God". Are you a customer of Pete Delane instead? That is an interesting alternative...

[This message has been edited by Adonai (edited 01-27-2005).]

Well said Adonai.

I have never met the man in question, but, a lot of people on this thread have, and have expressed their opinions here. He seems like an oldish guy with an out of date haircut, living in the past, with an arrogant (certainly not humble) attitude, who surrounds himself with sycophants and treats his CUSTOMERS in a manner which is likely to engender the dowfall of his organisation.

Perhaps this type of school appeals initially to those of low inteligence, poor social standing and as been already said, the disenfranchised of society. However, once the truth is uncovered they also want no part.

How can any reputable business enterprise be formed in an hour in back street pub, in a (and I quote my friend who knows the area well) part of the town in question which is not particularly salubrious. I cleaned that up for the benefit of the over sensitive members of B.A.M.A. What was actually said was; 6 miles up the rectum of the world.

All the best.

The posts by midnightcrawler are now beginning to upset me. He, or she, seems full of anger and aggression and is turning the thread into nothing more than a forum for name calling. I find his posts most childish. The language used is Troll-like in its application. Surely, if you are unable to contribute in an adult manner you shouldn’t post. This forum is visited by a wide range of users, some are children. Maybe you should remember that the next time you post. We all have a responsibility to ensure this forum is a tool for healthy discussion.

Midnightcrawler has graduated from verbally abusing PD to now abusing the members of BAMA referring to them as of low intelligence and poor social standing.

The language and aggression demonstrated by midnightcrawler is totally unnecessary and purely spiteful. Surely, this is not what this forum should be promoting.

Dale

[This message has been edited by DaleWinton (edited 01-27-2005).]

although i do not quite agree with MC's use of vernacular, i do agree with where he is going with it.

i think that dale winton is doing nothing more then defending PD and BAMA from what he deems unworthy commnents. i find it amusing to read DW's post reference this forum and what it is for and who reads it....especially since he pretty much has done nothing to support this forum (1 post?). i am sure he's been lurking around, but, he has made no other posts here and therefore i feel his comments reference what this forum is for, its readership and etc are unwarranted.
Kel

O.k it seems that there is a lot to understand or be understood and I doubt that we all will agree for our paths are many and diverse,however there are some questions put to me that I feel compeled to answer.

1. Liquidthoughtz: I am not trying to compete here I only wish to help others understand a single sane man's point of view,it may differ from the majority of people on this forum but I feel many have not represented the heart of B.A.M.A and I only wish to be diplomatic not competitive.
I know many question that which seems secular but perhaps everything in the world of martial arts doesn't have to follow the same line,does that really make it wrong are are we afraid to venture into that which does not follow the masses approved stamp and who is to say any man is right or wrong,are we all above credibility,do you all judge life in so narrow a view that if it isn't agreed within popular opinion then it must be wrong?

2. Midnightcrawler: I am not rich,nor do I run off to play samurai.As for a way of life my time in B.A.M.A has certainly changed my view on life,not that I believe we are all living a lie and must adhere to the way but that I know step back and think more and will believe in myself more,I have moved on to live a life that is to follow the way,as much as possible in a modern way mixed with the old way,you see everything is changing including the way,it moves with the times or it break or become stagnant,it is not a case of living as a samurai or pretending to be Japanese,I am an Englishman who follows a way of life that appreciates beauty and the sanctity of life in this modern world.
My parents were brilliant;my father taught me about respect and a sense of facing the truth even when I didn't want to,he taught me honour and decency and I am still proud of the unwavering strength he shows to this very day;my mother taught me great compassion and love,to be respectful of the fairer sex (ladies),she nurtured my feelings and gave me the freedom to express my innermost fears and joys of life;on the whole they gave me a balanced upbringing(so to all those who thought I was unhinged I'm sorry to have to disappoint you but I didn't need Bushido to offer me security I wanted Bushido to show me further ways in which to find balance and to feed my artistic flair).
You speak of customer care and I tell you I have no complaints,I got exactly what I wanted:a MA that had grit and dermination yet also had passion and a system of excellent teaching and above all had the balls to teach it's students about love not macho "punch,kick were 'ard as nails" crap.
(do not misconstrue this as meaning that I needed somewhere to teach me love,I just desired to find others that believed in the true way of Bushido).
You want proof to validate the school yet you fail to understand that these competitions offer only fame and glory,to compete in the local "bashing" competition is entirely irrelevant to how good your school is,it merely proves the childish attitudes that many schools have to MA,the only you proof you seek is a concept of what you believe the school to represent,that being it,s combat skills alone;to compete is to throw away that which we believe in "the way"-DO;not JUTSU "artform or skill"if you cannot understand this idea then I am wasting my time.
Religous sect is a hysterical reaction to the stories told in this thread,never have I felt manipulated or under control from the words of my school,I do not hold all that is said as gospel and we are encouraged to be free of thought and mind and we are not engineered on a hardcore belief system,trust me on this I am certainly not going to allow anyone to "mind-set" me.

Brainwaher:I you read earlier on this page (9) you will see that I am indeed a Sensei (blackbelt) and I still don't have ant problems with the school in any of the previously mentioned posts (page 1 - 9).

As for lies and truths there is no-one here who can give me truth on past history that would make me feel that I am concerned.I have checked the sites pertaining to certain trains of thought in the forum and I still do not adhere to the worried mass who bay and bark like angry wolves.There are many who fail to understand the way I feel and it seems I could be repeating myself for a long time:in the words of my Sensei I shall "let go of the need to defend" for in the need to defend I am merely wasting all our energy on this unagreeable point,so unless someone can offer me any of kind of understanding on anything I have said I will fade into the distance.....do not judge all that you hear on this site from those that would condemn B.A.M.A for it is in this judgement that you become that which you have condemned......

Kell,

Your logic makes no sense. How on earth can you extrapolate my criticism of Midnightcrawler’s language to defending PD or BAMA? What a strange conclusion to derive. But then I note you mentioned posting on this thread some time ago. Having read that post (on page 5) I see you have a habit of jumping to wild conclusions. From that post it’s clear you hold contempt for anyone trying to engage in a discussion about BAMA that happens to differ in point of view.

Regarding your comments about the forum, I’m sorry to have to tell you, but it’s a free access forum! I’m sorry hunterkell, but I have just as much right to post here as you do. You see, it’s for EVERYBODY.

It’s a shame my comments about the use of language by Midnightcrawler have been grossly misinterpreted by hunterkell.

This is all going a little off topic, before you turn this into a flame war..... this thread was originally a good debate and gave useful information, It would be a shame to have the thread locked or deleted by the mods after petty arguements.

DW, i find the fact that u jumped to the conclusion that i feel like u do not have a right to post at this forum a typical literary tool to make ur rather weak position appear stroger then it really is.

i said ur comments re MC were unwarranted.
YOU were the one that stated MC should not be posting, because YOU did not like what he posted.

DW, are u affiliated with PD or BAMA? you see, every so often some of BAMA's members will arrive make one post or two (hint, hint) and then off they go....never to be seen or heard from again.

i just find it suspicious that having never made a post u jump over MC reference his post content, which happens to be anti BAMA...having never made any other posts reference objectionable content or foul language (and there are plenty that warrant comment other then MC's post), u portray urself making those comments in a "good for all vein"....u can gainsay all u want to about what i am implying, but, if i (and others), don't see u posting regularly on the BB, then i submit that u r another BAMA student rushing to the aid of PD and BAMA...

i respect whatsinaname because he admits who he is and what his affiliation is...he is not hiding behind anything.

if u feel the need (and im sure u will), DW, u can have the last reply and we will end this as u have ur opinion and i have mine.
Kel

The abuse ends here.

Keep on topic or be deleted.

JohnL