FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
1 registered (Victor Smith), 39 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Troy7785, wakita, swisztony, Tonybb, shelly1993
22920 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
futsaowingchun 3
Matakiant 3
AndyLA 3
Marcus Charles 1
Victor Smith 1
October
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
New Topics
Tan,Bong,Fuk & Wu Sao
by futsaowingchun
Yesterday at 12:10 AM
Living a full life violence free...
by GojuRyuboy13
09/25/14 08:50 AM
Wing Chun-internal training
by futsaowingchun
09/23/14 09:01 PM
Martial News
by Matakiant
09/23/14 06:42 AM
STX Kickboxing Seminar
by Marcus Charles
09/09/14 06:57 PM
Biu Tzu- 1st section applications
by futsaowingchun
09/05/14 10:56 PM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Bartfast
08/05/14 04:18 PM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/30/13 07:41 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by
05/13/07 08:02 AM
Eugue Ryu
by
03/27/07 12:06 AM
Recent Posts
Tan,Bong,Fuk & Wu Sao
by futsaowingchun
Yesterday at 12:10 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Victor Smith
09/28/14 07:11 PM
Living a full life violence free...
by GojuRyuboy13
09/25/14 08:50 AM
Wing Chun-internal training
by futsaowingchun
09/23/14 09:01 PM
Martial News
by Matakiant
09/23/14 06:42 AM
attacked from behind
by AndyLA
09/19/14 09:05 AM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
09/18/14 06:07 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by Zombie Zero
09/16/14 04:43 PM
Eugue Ryu
by kolslaw
09/12/14 03:35 PM
Biu Tzu- 1st section applications
by futsaowingchun
09/05/14 10:56 PM
Forum Stats
22920 Members
36 Forums
35579 Topics
432500 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 4 of 6 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 >
Topic Options
#133287 - 07/29/04 11:05 PM Re: how to know a MA fraud and a MA master
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well said Ronin1966. an instructor should have a genuine interest in seeing his or her students improve, but repetition is very important as well.

On another note, it is very disturbing to me today to see how so many people on this and other forums find the need to sling mud at each other and point fingers over this and that issue. Too many egos. It is okay to disagree and have "respectful" comments back and forth, that is what the forums are all about, but there is no need to say that others are just wrong and you are right. "There are many ways to skin a cat." We all don't have to agree, but be polite about it. There is always someone who knows more and is more skilled than you. The old dogs of martial arts understand this. I seem to remember a day when key concepts taught inthe dojo were modesty and respect. Perhaps those have been lost, that is a shame.

Sorry to go on a tangent, but if you read the mud slinging discussions from earlier you may understand. Sorry to take up space with this lengthly response to nonsense.

Top
#133288 - 07/30/04 08:14 AM Re: how to know a MA fraud and a MA master
Anonymous
Unregistered


Andyongpoy,
It is impossible to find a teacher who is not a real teacher. Maybe it is better to ask, How do I become a real student? Andyongpoy, do you have a dog?

Top
#133289 - 07/30/04 09:56 AM Re: how to know a MA fraud and a MA master
Ironfoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/10/04
Posts: 2682
Loc: St. Clair Shores, MI USA
3 things I'd do to evaluate a master and his school:

1. For the skill of the master, look at his feet when he's performing techniques. If his steps are sure and MINIMAL and his stances strong, he's a true martial artist.

2. For the TEACHING ability of the master, look at his students, particularly the ones that have been there a year or two. Find out how long they've been there. You would expect the senior students to look good. I'd actually be worried if students are getting rank too fast. McDojo anyone?

3. For the KNOWLEDGE of the master, ask questions about some techniques you're seeing. If he answers quickly, convincingly and in detail then he's a true master.

Top
#133290 - 08/03/04 12:56 AM Re: how to know a MA fraud and a MA master
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hello Everyone.

I'm new to the post but I couldn't help but chime in on this one.

I've been a martial artist along time 28 years to be exact. And telling a fraud from a "master" is a hard thing for someone new.
One of the first things I'd ask are for creditentials and some kind of lineage.
Is the person teaching a 25 years old grandmaster?
Look for time in rank. Is some guy who study for a couple of years trying to pass himself off as a 3 or 4th dan.
Does the instructor have a lesson plan and a clear course of action? Does he pay attention to your strength and weaknesses and teach you accordingly.

As for competitions, they are not indicitive of skill level. I know quite a few martial artist who frown upon competitions. Myself included, though I've won more than my share. I can honestly say the heart of the martial arts or even good instructors are not found in the ring or tournament floor. Look at the early UFC competitions with Tank Abbot. Tank was a pure brawler in those days and he won quite a few matches but few would have called him a good martial artist... Tank has added some MA skills in recent years.
What about the tournament competitors doing musical kata? The moves look good but how much of it is actually effective or for that matter technically sound? Rapid fire roundhouses to one target and no rechamber. Come on who is going to be stupid enough to stand in the same spot and take 10 or 15 kicks?
Anyway I've gotten of the subject and onto my soapbox.

The best advise I can give is this... if your not comfortable or doubt the quality of instruction your receiving then that school is not for you. You need to have confidence and trust in your instructor if your going to be able to learn from him/her.

Top
#133291 - 08/10/04 11:38 AM Re: how to know a MA fraud and a MA master
Anonymous
Unregistered


This topic was a great read. I have been training in the Martial Arts since 1978 and instructing since 1988. I found all your replies interesting and thought provoking, but I do have to add my humble point of view on a few items if I may.

The Competition thing in relation to a good Martial Artist, or authentic can be misleading due to the amount of organizations out there that have world champions. I speak of this from experience since I hold five world titles from five different organizations, all of which are realitively small.

On teach the "real deal" I have to add this: As a school owner and instructor I realize the importance of teaching proper skills to our youths that will help them grow physically and mentally. I also realize the importance of teaching real life self-defense. On the flip side, in order to maintain a school I have had to develop different programs that install both aspects in all the students. What I once considered "watered down" Karate, is what helps pays the bills, but keep in mind I still offer the "real deal" training once a student reaches their green belt, they may choose to attend the traditional Karate classes as well.

On the topic of slinging mud, well it is always easier to do on the internet than in real life and yes I do agree that we as Martial Artist should be completely passed that point...and most of the "true" black belts, masters, etc. are beyond the mud aspect. Talk is just that, talk and the only thing that makes it worthwhile is when the individual has the accredidations to back up their postings.

As for beginners being able to spot a fraud, well that is a very tough one since there is no governmental regulatory body for the Martial Arts (even though some do claim to be). When I was a beginner it was easy, black belts in the late 70's and early 80's were all the real deal. It took dedication, perserverance and ALOT of time to earn a black belt. Today people just are not willing to work for it, or put in the time required to learn the applications to back the claim of black belt. All I can offer in advice is for you to seek out what you want, practice what you learn and in time it will all come together. Best wishes.

Top
#133292 - 08/13/04 09:23 AM Re: how to know a MA fraud and a MA master
Anpadh Offline
Member

Registered: 04/19/04
Posts: 162
Loc: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
It seems to me that the bottom line here is that you can only know a master if you are a master yourself. And that is kind of confusing, because how do you know if you are a master, yourself? The only way I know of determining if you are a master is to ask a person who was a master before you. But then that takes us in circles. To say that competitions are not indicative of skill level is like saying that good grades are not an indicator of knowledge and/or intelligence. True, but how else would a person judge? If neither competitions nor the opinions of respected leaders in the field are of any value in judging a person's skill-level, then it becomes purely subjective. You say someone is good and I say he is not, and that's it. For instance, Einstein failed the exam that would have given him a scholarship to study Physics, in college. Still, other respected scientists believe Einstein is a good physicist. Shakespeare never went to college but other great writers consider him to be a good writer. On the other hand, if someone wins the Nobel Prize in his/her field, why can't you say that the person is very good at what he/she does, even if you know nothing about the field? It is true that there may be someone else who is as good, perhaps even better than the person who won the competition for the Nobel Prize, but does that mean that the Nobel Prize is without any meaning or value? I know nothing about medicine but can I say that studying medicine from someone (ANYONE) who won the Nobel Prize in medicine is the same as studying under anyone else? Don't competitions and the judgement of one's peers have any value whatever, in the martial arts?

Top
#133293 - 08/19/04 12:54 PM Re: how to know a MA fraud and a MA master
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Anpadh:
It seems to me that the bottom line here is that you can only know a master if you are a master yourself. [/QUOTE] Do you actually believe this or just like to read what you type?

[QUOTE] To say that competitions are not indicative of skill level is like saying that good grades are not an indicator of knowledge and/or intelligence. True, but how else would a person judge? If neither competitions nor the opinions of respected leaders in the field are of any value in judging a person's skill-level[/QUOTE]

The skill level of the teacher was not in question. How do you know they are teaching you for real or is it crap is more or less what was asked. The best teachers are not always the ones who did well in competition. If that is how you judge it I'd look more at does his/her students do well in competition.

In regards to the original question: You can look to see if the school belongs to a national and/or international organization and contact them. In this day and age of graphic design and laser printers it's all too easy to fake certificates. A national/international organization will have records of the school and instructor. I would also agree with those that have said talk with others in you school. There are times that everybody goes through some of these things you mention. It might be as someone else mention "a slump." I had a period of about six months between my first and second belt in Yoseikan that I taught about quiting on a weekly basis. Ten years later I'm glad I stuck with it and can't believe I ever wanted to quit.

Top
#133294 - 08/20/04 10:28 AM Re: how to know a MA fraud and a MA master
Anpadh Offline
Member

Registered: 04/19/04
Posts: 162
Loc: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
From the answers I have read here it seems to me that there is, in fact, no truly reliable way to tell if your teacher is teaching you anything worth learning. If competitions and magazines are unreliable, so are international organizations. I could create an organization with any name I wanted. As to what other students say, well, that is very subjective. I may have gone there simply to get exercise and may be pleased with the class. Someone else may have gone there to get a belt and gotten it, despite receiving little real training and may also be happy with that.

So, basically, unless you are a master yourself, the only way to know if your teacher is any good is competition. If your teacher can kick the crap out of someeone else that you perceive to be at the same level of skill/training as your instructor, then, I guess you have a good instructor. Other than that, in the absence of any standards, there is no RELIABLE way of saying who is a good instructor. There is no organization that is universally believed in that has a set of criteria to judge whether an MA teacher is "good."

In the field of education, if you get a degree in Education and have high grades, then you are a "ggod" educator. As to what constitutes a good educator, that is well-defined by the universities that offer a degree in Education.

Top
#133295 - 08/20/04 11:02 AM Re: how to know a MA fraud and a MA master
Anonymous
Unregistered


There is a way to tell, its called your gut. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/redface.gif[/IMG])

I think we often neglect our inherent ability to determine an individual's sincerity. You run the same risks with a MA instructor that you do with a car mechanic, a home contactor, etc.. because they are all people.

If you use your inherent abilities (i.e. heart, gut, whatever its called) you can percieve how confident someone is in their trade, and also their true motivations.

That said, these percptions aren't as easy to make use of, if one is preoccupied. For example if a mcdojo teacher talks about power and magic techniques, and the student is really looking for power and magic techniques, this desire will interfere with their ability to percieve the situation properly. I believe anyone who is seeking sincere MA education would receive some subtle clues if they are in the right place or not. Just my humble opinion though.

~Ed

Top
#133296 - 08/20/04 11:15 AM Re: how to know a MA fraud and a MA master
Anonymous
Unregistered


Anpadh,
I ‘am fortunate. About 6 months ago I met a teacher. She came to live
with me and my family. The teacher was without a place to stay. I provide room and board for the teacher and in return I receive instruction. My teacher is not much to look at ,rather small, blind in one eye. The most inportant things I have learned from my teacher are not about technique. When I come home my teacher greets me so warmly.
Even though my teacher has faced many hardships my teacher begins each day with great enthusiasm. Maybe because of those hardships she does not trust people quickly. She take time to get to now them. She has taught me a lot about loyalty.
After dinner our lessons continue, usually we walk to a park near our house.
One night when we walked were approached by a group of young men that looked a little rough. I must admit I was a bit nervous and began to run through different scenarios
In my mind. Then much to my surprise my teacher greeted them with such enthusiasm that they couldn’t help but smile. Then she bent over and took a crap.
My teacher is named Pearl. She is a dog. I brought her home from the Humane Society.
Any teacher is a real teacher to a real student. We teach what we know. If a teacher is a fraud you may learn how one is swindled. If that lesson only takes 6 months and 500
Pesos, I ‘d consider that a pretty good deal. It took me much longer to learn. If you think you can only learn from a master, good luck finding one. If Lao tsu is to be trusted as a expert. We will never recognize one.
Van Gogh was not recognized for his skill or degree. He was considered by most an utter and complete failure. They said he could not draw or paint. He was considered insane. He is now in retrospect considered a master. His paintings are considered treasures. Most people would not recognize a master, even if my teacher bit them on the arse.


[This message has been edited by oldman (edited 08-21-2004).]

Top
Page 4 of 6 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 >


Moderator:  Cord, MattJ, Reiki, tkd_high_green 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Stun Guns
Variety of stun gun devices for your protection

Buy Pepper Spray
Worry about your family when you’re not around? Visit us today to protect everything you value.

Koryu.com
Accurate information on the ancient martial traditions of the Japanese samurai

C2 Taser
Protect yourself and loved ones from CRIME with the latest C2 Taser citizen model. Very effective.

 

 



Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga