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#132537 - 07/30/03 06:16 PM Re: Teaching Children
Reiki Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 3400
Loc: MiddleEarth
I keep forgetting that the laws in other countries and the ways of doing things are so vastly different to ours .......

I "belong" to our Martial Arts Club
- it's a non-profit organisation where we all give freely of our own time and expertise. No-one gets paid to teach and the monthly training fees are small to cover costs of hall hireage and equipment replacements etc.

We don't sue people here, and we don't have to insure ourselves against lawsuits or injury because its all covered in our taxes. Hospital care is free. Accident care is free. Physio is free if its an accident.

Everyone signs [parents sign for kids] the enrolment form that basically says, all care - no responsibility for accidents etc.

Most of us have first aid certificates and/or training, in fact I'm usually the one that patches up the wounded for obvious reasons.

We all take a lot of care to ensure that the kids don't get hurt or hurt each other. Kids do not do sparring until they reach blue belt level and then all sparring is done with safety equipement and is light contact only.

From what I've gathered, in some places where you guys come from, do people actually make money out of teaching martial arts???

I'm stunned.

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#132538 - 07/30/03 06:31 PM Re: Teaching Children
Reiki Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 3400
Loc: MiddleEarth
[QUOTE]Originally posted by JohnL:
Your views on how to raise children will change many times during that period.
And even then, when you have children, you'll get it all wrong. Sorry. it's just the way it is. All parents get it wrong. You just do the best you can.
As for putting kids into a MA class and staying there until you say it's ok. That's probably the easiest way to make them hate the MA's and give up straight away.

As for me, my eldest daughter trained until 2nd kyu and gave up. She said it was due to breaking her collarbone when practicing breakfalls. I tend to think it was a convenient excuse. She was 13. Girls at 13 tend to do that sort of thing. Maybe she'll come back, maybe not, I don't know.
My younger daughter took up karate, stopped and restarted a year ago. She enjoys it so she goes. I don't make her, nor do I believe she's doing other than having fun.
Long may she have fun.

Like I said, as with all other parents out there, I'm probably getting it wrong as well. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

JohnL
[/QUOTE]

I agree totally with you on this one! We all get it wrong, sometimes many times every day!!!

We all make mistakes, kids will do as they will.

I made similar mistakes with my son with riding. I pushed him a bit.

He loved it initially, did it for a few years, and he was so talented that he would have been world class material as a teenager. He gave up [I was very disappointed because he had wasted so much talent, and I mean TALENT!!] but that's his choice. Maybe he will return to it later in life, or not.

Ditto with soccer and he was very good at that too. He could always find goal from the other end of the field, he could really KICK!

He has stuck at his MA and loves it, and I'm not about to push him in any way at all because it's his decision to train or not. I hope he keeps at it because he has a great attitude.

As for my daughter, well she & I'd love it if she could do MA too but as she's quite disabled [she has Cerebral Palsy] and she's in a wheelchair and it's just not possible. Doesn't stop her from trying to do good pushups and situps though.... and she loves watching the other kids training.

And she loves riding her pony.

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#132539 - 07/30/03 06:48 PM Re: Teaching Children
Anonymous
Unregistered


Reiki.

In Britain it is the norm that MA instructors have a day job and teach in their spare time in hired church halls, community centres, school halls etc.
We charge to cover the hall hire, our travel etc.
Unfortunately, there are also a growing number who make a lot of money by charging ridiculous amounts for licences, joining fees, gradings etc.
I think in the US, many have or hire purpose built dojos and have students who pay up front for several months and the whole thing is run as a business.
Sharon

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#132540 - 07/30/03 08:14 PM Re: Teaching Children
smittenkittenTKD Offline
Member

Registered: 06/29/03
Posts: 232
Loc: MI usa
its my fault, i didnt explain well enough, i was trying to simplyfy. I co-teach with a 21 year old man who is a certified teacher and a second degree black belt. And im only temporarily teaching, my instructor is from Korea, and his parents still live there. His mother is dying so he took about 5 monthes off 2 stay with her. Before i could even think of teaching, i had to take a couple of Red Cross Courses in Basic Aid Training and Babysitting. The insurance does cover me, seeing as a certified adult is with me.So its not as "immoral" as you might have thought.

I started TKD when i was 4, and have never taken a gap year off or even a break that lasted more that two weeks. I am the only teenager in the place (well except this one guy whos 17, but i choose to ignore him and his pick up lines), since all the girls think its too rough and the boys have more conventional sports to play. So ive seen many younger people give it up, like your daughter john L, especially when it starts getting tougher.

[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]kitten

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#132541 - 07/30/03 08:38 PM Re: Teaching Children
Reiki Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 3400
Loc: MiddleEarth
[QUOTE]Originally posted by wadowoman:
Reiki.

In Britain it is the norm that MA instructors have a day job and teach in their spare time in hired church halls, community centres, school halls etc.
We charge to cover the hall hire, our travel etc.
Unfortunately, there are also a growing number who make a lot of money by charging ridiculous amounts for licences, joining fees, gradings etc.
I think in the US, many have or hire purpose built dojos and have students who pay up front for several months and the whole thing is run as a business.
Sharon
[/QUOTE]

ok, so in the UK it's pretty much like it is here in NZ & Aust. Ditto, we all have proper jobs and help out for the love of it.

Our club's $40 joining fee gives a newbie:
1> a video detailing the kata and routines they need to learn for yellow belt
2> a very nice club tee-shirt
3> the student handbook which gives info like dojo etiquette, basic forms and all the different belt level grading requirements etc etc
4> AND it covers the first months training fee.

They have to buy their gi through the club but we don't make any money on the transaction, they don't have to have a gi to participate, although they won't grade unless they have a gi.

Also new prospective members get 2 free sessions to see if they like it before we ask them for any money.

Pretty fair deal isn't it! [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

Our Grading fees have just gone up to $40. This covers your new belt, a large beautifully printed certificate, the hireage of the hall used for the day and the out of town expenses for the grading panels, some of which have to fly in from a long distance.

Some of the $$$ also goes toward the special medals and awards presented after the mid-year grading. [I got one of these this year for being top senior female Budo Warrior for our dojo and it was a lovely medal & certificate!]

We only have gradings [for those above yellow belt] at National level twice per year.

Everyone works *very* hard to get selected for grading!

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#132542 - 07/31/03 07:47 AM Re: Teaching Children
JohnL Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 4309
Loc: NY, NY, USA
Hey WW

[QUOTE]Originally posted by wadowoman:
John

Are you also opposed to young people like the boy I describe above training in martial arts?

Not starting an argument John, I agree with a lot of what you say on these forums and am genuinly interested in your point of veiw.
Sharon
[/QUOTE]

No I hadn't forgotten you, but I have a job to do as well.

I have no objection to children training. In anything.

Also when they're in the dojo, it really doesn't matter what you do with them providing it's not dangerous, and they have fun.

The objections I have are:
(Yes, I know maturity levels vary etc. so don't take me to task on that)

Children ages 3-11 are not taught MA's and instructors should stop telling the parents that they are. You are providing a baby sitting service in an environment that is good fun for the kids, gives them some exercise, and they get to wear funny pyjamas. Great, no problem, just stop telling people that it's a Martial Art.

Stop selling MA's at this age (or potentially any age) as character building, will make them better people, will toughen them up. Just about any sports activity has the same attributes. Great, no problem, just stop saying that MA's do something unique when in fact other sports also do.

Personally, I don't like calling what I teach a MA until kids are about 14/15 and even then it can be iffy.

So, what view do I hold.
Overall I have no problem with kids in the MA's although I wish people would stop selling it as something special. Yes it's fun. Yes the kids have a great time. But I'm not a babysitter, nor do I want to be one.

JohnL

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#132543 - 07/31/03 11:47 AM Re: Teaching Children
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks for replying John.

I agree with you that martial arts do not necessarily make anyone a better person. If they did, we wouldn't have people who profess to be ridiculously high nth dans charging money for old rope at association seminars etc. Most sports/arts take dedication and perseverance if one is to do well in them, so martial arts are certainly not unique in that respect.

We will agree to disagree on what age is suitable for children to start martial arts.(I think it is slightly lower than you do, but can not believe that some stat at 3!) As you say maturity varies from child to child.
Thanks again for replying
Sharon

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#132544 - 07/31/03 05:23 PM Re: Teaching Children
Reiki Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 3400
Loc: MiddleEarth
[QUOTE]Originally posted by wadowoman:

We will agree to disagree on what age is suitable for children to start martial arts.(I think it is slightly lower than you do, but can not believe that some stat at 3!) As you say maturity varies from child to child.
[/QUOTE]

We won't take them until they are at least 7 [I cant believe some kids actually start at 3!], but agree with you that the older ones are more able to learn and apply what they've learnt. Also they generally have better personal discipline and attitude toward training.

In any case I believe that the total body control and co-ordination they learn in MA is better than in most other sports apart from riding and swimming.

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#132545 - 08/01/03 08:10 AM Re: Teaching Children
JohnL Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 4309
Loc: NY, NY, USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Reiki:
We won't take them until they are at least 7 [I cant believe some kids actually start at 3!], but agree with you that the older ones are more able to learn and apply what they've learnt. Also they generally have better personal discipline and attitude toward training.

In any case I believe that the total body control and co-ordination they learn in MA is better than in most other sports apart from riding and swimming.

[/QUOTE]

Soccer, Rugby, athletics, gymnastics swimming, diving, roller blading, skiing, etc.

Shall I go on.

JohnL

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#132546 - 08/02/03 02:43 PM Re: Teaching Children
Isshin Dude Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/03
Posts: 480
Loc: Knoxville Tennessee U.S.A
[QUOTE]Originally posted by JohnL:
Soccer, Rugby, athletics, gymnastics swimming, diving, roller blading, skiing, etc.

Shall I go on.

JohnL

[/QUOTE]Yes Jk, tell us more. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

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