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#132527 - 07/27/03 09:31 PM Re: Teaching Children
smittenkittenTKD Offline
Member

Registered: 06/29/03
Posts: 232
Loc: MI usa
haha we do forms with our eyes closed too, but with our belts wrapped around their heads and they get spun around...

very cute! lol

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#132528 - 07/29/03 10:43 AM Re: Teaching Children
JohnL Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 4309
Loc: NY, NY, USA
You're teaching children. - Period.

This has nothing to do with teaching martial arts.

Once you accept that, you can do anything in class that is fun and keeps them occupied.

Oh, the cynicism [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

JohnL

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#132529 - 07/29/03 07:42 PM Re: Teaching Children
Reiki Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 3400
Loc: MiddleEarth
You're in good form again John....

Just in case you hadn't realised it, the kids are going to be the martial artists of the future. We try to train them to love learning their art.

As they get older and more serious they perfect their techniques and become useful.
They learn that they should train properly and they do.

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#132530 - 07/30/03 04:06 AM Re: Teaching Children
Anonymous
Unregistered


John

What would you say about a boy who started karate at aged 9 and a half. His dojo didn't play games, but he was expected to take his training seriously. Many of his school friends started at the same time as he did. Most left once they realised it was not a playground. Some stayed a couple of years and left because they were not grading quick enough or because they were not self disciplined enough to train 2 or 3 rtimes a week in the summer when their friends were out playing (fair enough, not sure I would have been at that age either).
Five and a half years later, he is coming up to his junior first dan (to be retaken for obvious reasons between the ages of 17 and 18).
He has been assesed by respected instructors who have been training for many years who do not teach children as a general rule. These instructors think he is as good as some adult 1st kyus (obviously lacking the strength of a man, but that will come). He has a good understanding of body mechanics and is very responsible about how he uses his training.
He is my student and I am very proud of him.

I think (could be wrong and I am sure you will tell me if I am!) that you are opposed to the Mcdojos that profess to be teaching children martial arts but are really just amusing the kids and taking money under false pretences (we have them in the UK too).

Are you also opposed to young people like the boy I describe above training in martial arts?

Not starting an argument John, I agree with a lot of what you say on these forums and am genuinly interested in your point of veiw.
Sharon

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#132531 - 07/30/03 08:37 AM Re: Teaching Children
Ender Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/29/03
Posts: 2253
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Agree with Wadowoman.

A very good friend of mine began Tae Kwon Do at age 7. His club was just barely legal(I doubt it was legal at all, thats just what we says), and quite often the students went all out full contact sparring. Many times they would come away with some pretty nasty cuts and bruises, a few broken bones, etc. This instructor would have them do hundreds of push ups and sit ups a class. Not surprisingly, eventually the instructor was arrested for supposedly beating his wife. The surprising part? None (and I mean NONE) of his students believed he did it...Now you would think that these kids would hate this man after all this, but no, they love him for everything that he did for them. He trained them exactly how they wanted to be trained, and anybody who didn't want to, left.

10 Years later, my friend is going for his second degress black belt in Tae Kwon Do, and also holds first degree black belts in aikido, jujutsu, kenpo, and hapkido. He is the best fighter (for his age) I have EVER seen. The entire school is afraid of him (though he is the nicest guy). He has taught me alot as a friend and a Martial Artist.

I wish I had stayed with the arts as a child, I didn't realize their importance then. Needless to say when I have children, they will be introduced to the arts at a very young age and will stay there until they are old enough to make an educated decision to leave. Children don't always know what they want, Lord knows I didn't, and I kick myself everyday for making the choices I did.

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#132532 - 07/30/03 09:14 AM Re: Teaching Children
Fighting Dwarf Offline
Member

Registered: 03/27/03
Posts: 322
Loc: UK
Ender, I don't think the kind of training that your friend had is suitable for children. Teach them the same drills as adults, the same kata, and sparring, whatever, but full contact shouldn't be used with kids. Maybe this instructor did give the kids just what they wanted from their training, but like you said yourself, children don't always know what they want, and they certainly don't always know what is best for them. Your friend might be a great fighter now, but how much damage has also been done.
To be honest, I'm surprised that an instructor like that has any students, kids at least, because most parents wouldn't let their kids go back after they've come home a few times with injuries more serious than than the odd bruise. It's a shame too, because the parents that did withdraw their kids from this guy's class will have gone away with a very negative impression of MAs.

-Charlie

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#132533 - 07/30/03 09:24 AM Re: Teaching Children
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ender with respect, any instructor that allows children to spar full contact or to regularly sustain the injuries you describe should be shot!
I would like to clarify that my juniors are allowed to spar semi contact only. Adults are a different matter.
Sharon

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#132534 - 07/30/03 10:34 AM Re: Teaching Children
JohnL Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 4309
Loc: NY, NY, USA
I feel a number of posts in this thread require a response. I haven't got hours to spend so I'll do them gradually.

First, smittenkitten

[QUOTE]Originally posted by smittenkittenTKD:
i teach a Tae Kwon Do childrens class for belts white to green.The children are fairly young, and their attention spans tend to evaporate fairly quickly doing drills the adult class does. SO most of the teaching i do is through games. i have some really great ones, as well as discplinary tricks, if anyone would like to trade! lol

kitten
[/QUOTE]


The question should be asked, why are you teaching children anything, never mind a martial art.
At 14 or so I assume you have no formal qualifications to teach children. A university degree and masters in teaching would be useful.
I presume your ability to teach a physical exercise to young children is based on your qualifications in this field.
I further assume that you are fully qualified in first aid and are fully aware of the current health difficulties of all your charges, having discussed these with their parents.
Does your dojo's insurance company know that the instructor allows a child to supervise the childrens class and are you covered under this policy.

It may seem that I'm having a go at you, but I'm not. Honestly. It isn't your fault.

It's your instructors fault for putting you in this position. He's using you as slave labour to do what he's being paid to do. He's either too lazy to teach (in which case he should not be in the business) does not like teaching children (in which case he should not hold classes for them) or see's his older children as a source to be tapped to make him money.

Before letting my children join a class of any sort, I would find out who was going to teach them, their qualifications to do so, their insurance coverage, etc.
If I found that the teaching was delegated to other children I would not let my children go there.
It is time that this exploitation is stopped.

JohnL

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#132535 - 07/30/03 12:55 PM Re: Teaching Children
JohnL Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 4309
Loc: NY, NY, USA
Now for Enders post on the subject.

"A very good friend of mine began Tae Kwon Do at age 7. His club was just barely legal(I doubt it was legal at all, thats just what we says), and quite often the students went all out full contact sparring. Many times they would come away with some pretty nasty cuts and bruises, a few broken bones, etc. This instructor would have them do hundreds of push ups and sit ups a class."

Anyone who runs a class such as this belongs in the middle ages. He should have been sued out of existence. I can't beleive the parents were stupid enough to let their children train with this imbecile.

"Not surprisingly, eventually the instructor was arrested for supposedly beating his wife. The surprising part? None (and I mean NONE) of his students believed he did it..."

That's not suprising. Simply indoctrination.

"Now you would think that these kids would hate this man after all this, but no, they love him for everything that he did for them. He trained them exactly how they wanted to be trained, and anybody who didn't want to, left."

Simply shows that children don't know any better and need to be protected.

"10 Years later, my friend is going for his second degress black belt in Tae Kwon Do, and also holds first degree black belts in aikido, jujutsu, kenpo, and hapkido. He is the best fighter (for his age) I have EVER seen."

For a 17 year old to hold the number of grades you say, exhibits the worst in MA McDojo situations. For someone this age to hold these ranks at his age, totally devalues all ranks of serious MA's. No wonder I've turned into such a cynical old fool.

"I wish I had stayed with the arts as a child, I didn't realize their importance then."

Ender, I've got news for you. You're still a child.

"Needless to say when I have children, they will be introduced to the arts at a very young age and will stay there until they are old enough to make an educated decision to leave. Children don't always know what they want, Lord knows I didn't, and I kick myself everyday for making the choices I did."

This statement just confirms your level of maturity. I have no doubt that you will continue to grow and mature into a fine upstanding young man. Your views on how to raise children will change many times during that period.
And even then, when you have children, you'll get it all wrong. Sorry. it's just the way it is. All parents get it wrong. You just do the best you can.
As for putting kids into a MA class and staying there until you say it's ok. That's probably the easiest way to make them hate the MA's and give up straight away.

As for me, my eldest daughter trained until 2nd kyu and gave up. She said it was due to breaking her collarbone when practicing breakfalls. I tend to think it was a convenient excuse. She was 13. Girls at 13 tend to do that sort of thing. Maybe she'll come back, maybe not, I don't know.
My younger daughter took up karate, stopped and restarted a year ago. She enjoys it so she goes. I don't make her, nor do I believe she's doing other than having fun.
Long may she have fun.

Like I said, as with all other parents out there, I'm probably getting it wrong as well. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

JohnL

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#132536 - 07/30/03 01:50 PM Re: Teaching Children
Anonymous
Unregistered


Smittekitten,
I didn't realise how young you were!
John is absolutely right, what is wrong with your instructor? You can not be insured. If a child is injured through no fault of yours and needs medical care that there is no insurance to pay for how will you feel? What do your parents think about this? What do the parents of the children you teach think?
This is certainly immoral, if not illegal.
Like John, I am not having a go at you, I agree it is not your fault. I imagine you are very flattered to be asked by your instructor to teach, but it is wrong.
Sorry

John, I hope you have time to answer my post, especially now that you have told us your own children train. I assume that you were talking about younger children?
Sharon

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