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#132260 - 03/28/03 04:51 PM Re: Question the master: capital offense?

Racoon, I am glad I train with English instructors who encourage questions, I think a good instructor would. I am also glad that I train with men who think like you do.
However I would never argue with my instructor regardless of nationality. If I disagreed that strongly I would ask him about it as you did. If I disagreed with his answer, I would wait till after the lesson and speak to him outside the dojo. If he and I had such opposing views, I would have to find a different instructor. I don't mean this personally, but I feel it is very disrespectful to argue with an instructor in the dojo, particularly whilst a lesson is in progress.
I would not continue to train a student that argued with me in the dojo.

#132261 - 03/28/03 05:11 PM Re: Question the master: capital offense?
Khayman Offline

Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 725
Loc: Wiltshire, UK
I agree: questions are always welcome during and class and after. But arguements are best saved for the bar after training. I agree with wadowoman, I would not train a student that started an arguement with me in the dojo, its disrespectful to me and to the class. If someone strongly disagrees with something, I am very happy to debate after the class and if i'm wrong about something I will acknowledge it.

#132262 - 03/28/03 06:53 PM Re: Question the master: capital offense?
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
It is easy to say I would acknowledge I am wrong but much harder to do so. It sounds like your Shihan comes from a discipline that had no women in his training and is a little misguided about how to treat these women. Especially if they are there and he doesnt want them to be. Personally I would have to find a new instructor. While his skills may be great, being a teacher to someone isn't about technique alone and when teaching you should also be open to learning.

#132263 - 03/31/03 12:39 PM Re: Question the master: capital offense?
judderman Offline

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 1400
Loc: UK
There is a definate mixture of Japanese instructors.

I have been warned that some will not even talk to you if you are not of a particular rank, other welcome it.

You have to remember the culture that these people come from. Rank and status are still very important in many areas of Japanese culture.

This notion is not just confined to Japan of course.

Ask questions, but you should not question the answer. This would either make you look stupid or worse, rude. As has been said wait till afterwards, or ask someone else later.

Remember not all teaching styles are the same. I heard of an instructor who's English was terrible, so in order to point out you were doing something wrong he would stand in front of you, point and laugh!!

I even remember my first grading under a Japanese instructor. There I am in the best Zenkutsu I can muster, he comes round and pokes my arse

"Baby Bottom. Tense it!!" he says

How do you argue that??

Unfortunetly I also remember the first time I lost a great deal of respect for my Sensei. I asked if he knew of any knife defences, as a friend was trying to evaluate the threat of knives at work.

He mearly replied "perhaps they should be more concerned about how they get them in there".

I never got my answer and I never asked a similar question again. A few years later I stopped training under him.


#132264 - 03/31/03 12:43 PM Re: Question the master: capital offense?
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Judderman, while I could see the disappointment in your sensei's answer he also raised a great point. The answer he gave you wouldnt teach you technique but would eleviate the need for the technique which I think in most cases is more effective than the technique itself.

#132265 - 03/31/03 05:35 PM Re: Question the master: capital offense?
raccoon Offline

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 848
Loc: Victoria BC Canada
Thanx for the replies, I think I am going to give it a little bit more time.

Except for the issue with woman trainees, all other questions I hold about Shihan's teachings resolved themselves in time.

Besides, my dojo is in intense training mode again, preparing for Canadian Kyokushin championship. I really don't have the gut to piss with Shihan right now. I am surprised and grateful that he let me survive his "gentle introduction to tournament special trainings"; surely I am not going start telling him how he is going too easy on some of us. If things don't get better after the tournament, I might possibly "confront" him again about this, and I will do so in writing, so that hopefully I don't say anything hasty and regretable.

Thanx again!


#132266 - 04/01/03 07:21 PM Re: Question the master: capital offense?
ishinnick Offline

Registered: 12/25/02
Posts: 182
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Arguing with a Kyokushin Shihan !! Your'e a brave man my friend !! That is a style that I would not really think was suited to very many ladies and no I'm not trying to start a sexist war here but that is such a hard style with knock down fighting etc. I have got to be honest in saying at my ripe old age I would not want to try training at a Kyokushin Dojo so it is not just tough for the ladies. And you would not want to see the style watered down either so if you are going to fight that style you should be prepared for the worst !!

#132267 - 06/05/03 01:39 PM Re: Question the master: capital offense?
malanr Offline

Registered: 05/30/03
Posts: 66

JohnL was right, question, question everything, But before you question think about it first.

As for the sexest view, find a better instructor.

Chen zen, good answer on the knife issue.
but, i also think that if the master wants to give that kind of an answer, he may only be worried about himself. It would only take Raccoon a couple weeks to practice and affect a few knife attack defenses, but it would take years and cooperation and lots of money to install Metal detectors, or pay friskers at the door to solve the bigger problem. Solutions for big problems are often found in small form!

#132268 - 06/08/03 08:07 AM Re: Question the master: capital offense?
Ender Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/29/03
Posts: 2253
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
hold hold hold on!


Your instructor sounds extremely brutal, and does he often tell you to drink? I cant imagine what kind of Sensei actually puts pressure on a school kid (like myself) to drink? Im sure you get good trainig with the intensity level your at, but it sounds like your cruising for some serious injury later on, if your Sensei is as careless as youve made him out to seem to be.

As for training women, I believe in completely equal training levels. If they cant handle the intensity level, well, try HARDER.

Those who can't, arent trying hard enough.

And don't give me any of that "I can't fly" Bullsh*t. Shutup and keep trying!

[This message has been edited by Ender (edited 06-08-2003).]

#132269 - 07/18/03 09:25 PM Re: Question the master: capital offense?
smittenkittenTKD Offline

Registered: 06/29/03
Posts: 232
Loc: MI usa
i agree with ender...making you drink when you have school? your introduction?

you should definatly be able to seek answers to your questions,thats what makes you a better martial artist. as long as you dont contradict on the floor during a class, but ask respectfully later,i dont see why anyone would have a problem with that. your instructor doesnt know everything, he (or she) is still growing in their knowledge too.

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