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#132042 - 03/09/03 03:35 AM Re: Ninjutsu
Scholar Offline
Member

Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 472
Loc: Brockton
Research includes; Various type of stepping techniques for moving quietly and on various terrain. Also methods of hiding thus invisibility. The use of mudras where energy work appears more involved in holding the breath than other methods. Check out the books by Ashida Kim. Also note tactics using flash in campfire, string to deliver poison. Note also escape by training to be double jointed ect. Referance to elements/postures

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#132043 - 03/09/03 09:59 AM Re: Ninjutsu
Cato Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 1636
Chen, You obviously have a problem with me.
Forget it and move on. Life's too short and I really don't care enough to engage in some petty feud with you. You have an opinion of me, and I of you. I'm willing to bet that neither is complimentary - get over it.


[This message has been edited by Cato (edited 03-09-2003).]

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#132044 - 03/09/03 10:38 AM Re: Ninjutsu
Cato Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 1636
Chen, You have raised my curiosity. You say that ju jutsu wasn't contemporary with Samurai, so perhaps you could tell me the history of the art? When did it come into being, and why?

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#132045 - 03/09/03 11:44 AM Re: Ninjutsu
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Cato I have no problem with you I have a problem with how you adressed DarkNinja. Thats all. You did not have to say to him that he would never be a ninja and so on. To me that was very rude. But enough of that. As for history which art? Your question was rather vague.

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#132046 - 03/10/03 10:11 AM Re: Ninjutsu
Cato Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 1636
Ju jutsu.

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#132047 - 03/10/03 11:57 AM Re: Ninjutsu
senseilou Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2082
Loc: Glendale, Az.
Children, children, now lets be nice or I'll send you all to time out, Geez, just when I thought I could quit being Sensei!!!
Now, anyone ever heard of a silent kill? The Navy S.E.A.L.s use this all the time, and has 2 variations. One you come up from behind(NInja style)someone, your hand goes to their mouth so they can not yell, and you slit their throat with the other hand. Adapting this, you can cover their mouth, and snap their neck OR cover their mouth and choke them out, and no one hears anything. They have used this for years.We use a combination choke and smothering technique ourselves. So did the Ninja, so you can choke someone out without making noise. Ninja used stealth, period. It doesn't matter what you call what they did. My buddy Cato is right though, its basic Jujutsu. If you go to the essence of what they did, they trained in Jujutsu arts. Chen you may have an offskew idea of early on Jujutsu. Jujutsu was radically changed in Japan after 1860 something. The old school Jujutsu was much different than you see today. Even Danzan Ryu Jujutsu is so very different than the old Jujutsu, you can't make the comparison.
Ever heard of a Yawara? Do you know that original Jujutsu was called Yawara. Yawara is a Jujutsu weapon that the Ninja employed, it looks like a roll of quarters, made of metal(though I am not sure what type they used back then) and both ends are pointed. This was used to hit pressure points and joints, and assist in their locking. Chen by your own addmission Ninja used pressure points, have you ever tried to use them on a fighting person, or a person with 'recessed' points. They can be hard to find, and time consuming, something the Ninja didn't have alot of. Ninja's had many functions, from just spying to silent killers. Do you know they were the first to 'sight' a rifle in Japan. They used a string and a plumb to sight the rifle, so they had other functions as well
I think one can be blinded by bad information, remember not all Martial artists are Historians. There are several good books on this, one is Secrets of the Samurai by Oscar Ratti. This is a historical journey and one will see that Jujutsu was around very early on. Chen I think someone may have given you some bad information as the Jujutsu arts were used by Samurai and Ninja and the Karate you speak of is atemi waza which was not codified in any nature in Japan, but in China, then to Okinawa. Karate as we know it, in curriculum form DID NOT EXIST in feudal Japan. That is not to say they didn't strike, but if you do some research, Samurai were noblity, and to leave a 'mark' on a Samurai meant you lost you head. As for the Ninja, they used what was necessary especially the escape arts, both for stealth, and to get out of locks. some of the best reverses for joint locks I got came from Ninjutsu. Why would they practice escaping from locks, if no body was doing them?

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#132048 - 03/10/03 12:07 PM Re: Ninjutsu
senseilou Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2082
Loc: Glendale, Az.
P.S........Jujutsu is not wrestling, there is much more, a hip throw may resemble wrestling, but what about finger, wrist and elbow locks, standing up, not wrestling.
P.S.S.............Having kids in Ninja getup running around doing hand flips and such and sneaking into a room is not Ninjitsu. Ninjitsu has been "amercanized' here and in now way reflects the original art. Most schools now 'play' at being a Ninja. I have seen some of Hatsumi students and they are playing Ninja and are not in touch with their roots

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#132049 - 03/10/03 01:01 PM Re: Ninjutsu
raccoon Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 848
Loc: Victoria BC Canada
is Cato one of those "children" at risk of time-out? [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

I don't know about anyone else, I am suffering severe stomach ache from laughing too hard while reading this thread. Time for some "laugh muscle" conditionings...

-raccoon

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#132050 - 03/10/03 01:22 PM Re: Ninjutsu
raccoon Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 848
Loc: Victoria BC Canada
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chen Zen:
Jamoni, Look sure I could have approached the situation in a nicer manner but here is the problem. First he was rude to the asker of the question and he has had rude remarks towards me before as well as I stated earlier. Had he not then yes I would have taken a different approach. [/QUOTE]

Chen, didn't you said to me something about "love your enemies like your friends"? What I see here is "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth"

I think most of us come here to see different views on same topics; why don't we do each other a favor, focus more on the topic discussed and less on criticizing the author? From your previous posts I see someone who means well, who likes to make the World a better place; who like to promote respects among people, whether they earned it or not. Why don't you show us how it's done by actions instead of by theory? That way you can practice to be a better Christian and we can enjoy sharing different views without the finger pointings. Sensei Lou also gets to take a break from being Wraphy sensei [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

-raccoon

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#132051 - 03/10/03 04:02 PM Re: Ninjutsu
Cato Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 1636
Before I get given a "time out" I'd just like to say... Tell him, not me. HE started it. You always pick on me. It's not fair. I hate you. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/tongue.gif[/IMG]

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