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#132032 - 12/04/02 06:27 PM Ninjutsu
DarkNinja Offline
Stranger

Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 4
I have been interested in Ninjutsu for a long time now. After timeless searching I called this one school that said they can teach the Ninjutsu fighting style which is some kind of karate (kempo or something)
He said it's exactly the same as the Ninjutsu fighting style and the only reason it's not called Ninjutsu is because Ninjutsu classes teach tree climbing, stealth, shuriken, etc.
Does anyone know if this is true or not?

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#132033 - 12/05/02 04:40 AM Re: Ninjutsu
Cato Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 1636
For what its worth I think it more likely that ninja trained in ju jutsu rather than karate. Ninpo ju jutsu claims to be an authentic ninja art, although I don't know of any evidence to support the claim.

But really, does it matter? You're never going to be a ninja, nobody really knows what they trained in and it probably varied fron clan to clan anyway. Just enjoy what you train in.

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#132034 - 03/06/03 08:28 PM Re: Ninjutsu
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
For one Cato how can you say "you are never gonna be this or that"? Never squander someones ability to learn and their desire to reach their dreams. Second off Ninja's use jujutsu since when? You are a damned fool if thats what you think. Normally I have a hard time saying that but oddly enough not to you. Ninja's didnt wrestle. Its too noisy. Ninja are stealth. Ninja uses pressure points/ Ki points and devastating strike to quickly subdue there opposition. I doubt there was ever a ninja assassination by wrestling the guy to death. You should not speak on things of which you obviously do not know. You probably think ninja walked around in black suits and masks too.

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#132035 - 03/07/03 06:21 PM Re: Ninjutsu
Jamoni Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 1514
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
Chen Zen, you have officially pissed me off.
You call Cato a damn fool, when he is expressing a KNOWLEDGEABLE OPINION. As stated in his post, no one knows what the ninja's used, because they didn't talk about it. Duh. BUT, wrestling is BY NATURE quieter than unarmed striking. Which is louder, the sound of someone being choked out, or the sound of them getting punched in the face? THINK. Study some commando silent kill techniques, and you will find most of them involve closing from behind, choking, and stabbing into the neck. Sounds more like grappling than striking.
If I wanted to take someone out stealthily, I would not attack him with ki/pressure points, and devastating strikes. I'd sneak up and snap his neck or choke him out. Do you think YOU could silently beat someone to death before they had a chance to yell? Do you know ANYONE who could?
Try to be a little more civil, please.

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#132036 - 03/07/03 07:00 PM Re: Ninjutsu
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Jamoni, Please you mean to tell me a strike to the base of someones brain stem is quiter than wrestling them and having them struggle back? Please. Do you know anything about pressure points? It takes about a second in a half to knock someone unconscious using the proper technique.When a ninja was sent on a mission to assassinate someone how could he quitley wrestle them in there home without breaking things shaking the floor or what have you? That is why ninja do not wrestle. Wrestle someone with a choke and wait the whole thirty seconds to a minute till they pass out or punch them in the throat? Punch in the throat and they will not yell. Nor will they breathe. As far as commando techniques what is the one that takes them out? The STRIKE to the neck so thank you for making my point for me. As for beating someone to death silently absolutely. Do you know anything about chi energy. If you disrupt the energy then the energy stops. When the energy stopps then so does the being. That simple. As far as being civil goes piss off because my remark had more to do with the way he addressed Darkninja then what he has to say about ninja. Not to mention the fact that he has been quite rude to me before. And personally every post I have read from you meant dick. You have as much martial art knowledge as a van damme movie. Dont try to approach me with your bullshit cuz if I wanted it I would have addressed the post to you. Chen Zen

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#132037 - 03/08/03 08:03 PM Re: Ninjutsu
Jamoni Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 1514
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
Chen ZEN (Where's the zen?) I give up. Your manly and powerful internet posting has rendered me impotent with fear and shame.
People are rude to you because you are rude.
I don't know "dick"? How very high school of you. I will make sure to never approach you with my "bullshit". It is obvious that your ninja stealth moves are totally realistic, and that a person just drops dead instantly when you punch them in the throat. But I'm just a soldier, so what would I know about violence? I'm just an EMT, so what would I know about anatomy and trauma? I am prepared for your well thought out and rational response.

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#132038 - 03/08/03 08:22 PM Re: Ninjutsu
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
First off Jamoni I'm not rude to people unless provoked. When they are rude to me or others then hell yes I am rude.For two I am not saying that a person will drop dead from a throat punch but it definately is quiter than wrestling them to the ground and easier to dispatch them in this way. As far as being a soldier well let me say hello to you from One soldier to another so I imagine I know as much about military combat as you do. As far as being a emt goes what does that matter? The question at hand isn't about anatomy,(which I have an above average understanding of) but about stealth. Also this is the second thread in which you have made my point for me. Since it was unintentional for you to do so I deemed your response bullshit. You see Jamoni the problem is this. Rather than take note as to why I said what I said to Cato you instead look only at the words. That is the problem. You look at the words but not in the context they are given. You look at the words but not the message. And then to say I piss you off with a comment that 1) wasn't directed to you 2)Without proper interpretation then you have been rude to me and that makes you wrong. The tao say to learn from your mistakes so learn from this one and learn to read more carefully into the messages before you decide to assault someone. I haven't had nor do I have a problem with anyone in this forum or in my life. So perhaps the problem does not reside in me but in you. Chen Zen

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#132039 - 03/08/03 08:43 PM Re: Ninjutsu
Jamoni Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 1514
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
You can't call someone a damn fool and then defend that as a reasonable action. Sure, Cato can handle himself (he's probably laughing his ass off at this thread), but I wanted to call you out. I don't have a problem with YOU. The problem is with your action. You could have made your point in a non-insulting way. Also, you could have left a little latitude for discussion. As for my criterion as an EMT, I have seen people die. From car accidents, from knife wounds, from drug overdoses, etc. NONE of them went quietly. The unarmed instant kill is a myth. If you punch someone in the throat, They will be able to breathe quite well until the swelling closes the trachea. After that, they still have all of the oxygen in their lungs, and all of the oxygen in their blood to use up before they die. They will jump around and make a lot of noise. As for the base of the skull blow, sure, fine, that might work. But I've also seen a sixteen year old kid take a monkey wrench to that spot, and beat the hell out of the guy who hit him.
All of this is incidental however, because any ninja (supposing they DID exist), would have used BOTH grappling AND striking only IF he didn't have a BLADE. Duh. I can't believe I am arguing with you over how ninjas killed people. I feel twelve years old.
And, SOLDIER, you can deem my reponse bullshit all you want. Time and truth will tell.

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#132040 - 03/09/03 12:34 AM Re: Ninjutsu
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Jamoni, Look sure I could have approached the situation in a nicer manner but here is the problem. First he was rude to the asker of the question and he has had rude remarks towards me before as well as I stated earlier. Had he not then yes I would have taken a different approach. As for the thraot topic. I assume they would breathe but would this be the case if the throat box were crushed by the impact? I dont think so. As for me calling your resposes bullshit, I apologize for that but let me explain to you why I deemed it so. This topic came up the other day with Cato only regarding samurai instead of ninja. My argument with Cato is not that samurai or ninja did not grapple my argument is that neither of the two were based solely on this. A ninja or a Samurai were not jujutsu artist. For one I dont believe jujutsu was around then and two how could you say that when their are the sword techniques and the stand up striking. You walked into a conversation that had transfered from another thread so you didnt have the full story. Do I feel bad for addressing Cato? Absolutely not because the fact is he was extremely rude to the kid. You dont try to just stomp on someones dream and personally it disgusted me. Now then lets try to get this civil again and on to the topic at hand. Also I apologize to Dark Ninja as none of us have paid attention to his question. My next post will. Until then lets get to the learning and forget all this. Chen Zen

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#132041 - 03/09/03 12:49 AM Re: Ninjutsu
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Dark Ninja, I studied with a man in Cincinatti who had some experience with Ninjutsu. The striking techniques seem to be a mixture of Eagle Claw (with tissue tearing and locking grasping techniques) With praying mantis or Snake style Kung Fu.(Due to the quick pressure point and soft tissue attacks) It may have even been Dim Mak but I dont know how authentic Dim Mak is. Undoubtedly they also studied some sort of ground fighting but I am not so quick to call this Jujutsu. They also obviously used a sword when they could but I am not sure what style it was based. I can find out but it may take a while as I have not been in contact with him for some time. Also an authentic Ninjutsu school will teach you stealth and things of that nature.If you really want good Ninjutsu training look for Masaaki Hatsumi (changed the name from Ninpo Taijutsu to Budo Taijutsu) but all he changed was the name not the style. If he has returned to Japan (im not sure) then look for Jack Hoban who Hatsumi taught and personally recommends. Hope this helps. And people thaught I knew nothing of NINJA [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

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