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#131948 - 08/10/01 04:20 AM Random Thoughts: That Count
romarcellus Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/10/01
Posts: 8
Loc: Canada
Context: Basic one step sparring. Shotokan.

Here, I stand - "yoi" - ready to receive. The attacker "left leg forward gedan-barai" -
ready to attack oi-zuki jodan. At least, I suppose he is ready to attack.

"That count" - "ichi". The attacker moves
rapidly to the oi-zuki. I receive it and
counter.

Here's the rub. I find that the attacker and
the defender are responding to "that count". The attacker is not really paying much attention to the defender. The defender is not really paying much attention to the
attacker.

Then sensei says, "Continue on your own".
The attacker starts moving back and forth
like a metronome. The defender goes for
a coffee and comes back to find the attacker
going "back and forth" - it seems he wasn't missed. [IMG]http://bbs.fightingarts.com/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

The whole thing doesn't do much for improving
your karate. What is needed is a little awareness - on both sides.

When "that count" comes, the attacker could
try selecting the time to attack (within reason). Is the defender thinking about his coffee ? Go NOW! What about the breathing ? Did the defender move to the count and complete his block before you attacked ?
Go NOW!

Defender, ignore the count. Pay attention to
the attacker. How does he initiate the attack ? What moves first ? What about the
breathing? The shoulders ? Is your focus
soft enough to pick up the entire body ?
How long after the start of the attack
can I wait? Where is the point-of-no-return
in the attack (i.e. full commitment) ?

Now the basic one-step to count finally
starts to get interesting. And there is
so much more to work on.

Oh well coffee is over ? Back to the
metronome.

Later,
Roman

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#131949 - 08/10/01 10:02 AM Re: Random Thoughts: That Count
KoshoBob Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/01
Posts: 51
We gave up that structured one-step sparring several years ago. No one on the street will fight like that so why train like that?

We now do our 1-step from a relaxed stance and the attacker throws the punch (typically a hay-maker) and then it is delt with.

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#131950 - 08/11/01 08:03 PM Re: Random Thoughts: That Count
Nick B Offline
Member

Registered: 06/05/01
Posts: 46
Loc: Ajax , Ontario , Canada
[QUOTE]Originally posted by KoshoBob:
We gave up that structured one-step sparring several years ago. No one on the street will fight like that so why train like that?

We now do our 1-step from a relaxed stance and the attacker throws the punch (typically a hay-maker) and then it is delt with.
[/QUOTE]

I think your idea is a good one because generally if you are going to get attacked on the street it is going to be a haymaker that is thrown at you, not at straight karate style punch.

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#131951 - 08/28/01 05:32 AM Re: Random Thoughts: That Count
kenpocan Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 18
Loc: ireland
Sound thinking so far. I studied shotookan for 13 years and kenpo for 20. I've also dabbled in numerous other arts. One thing that occurs to me is that very few martial arts practice realistic attacks anymore. How better to develop zanshin? I teach kenpo now, and we stand behind the the defenders and merely gesture to the attacker. This works well for lower grades. For higher grades, it's every man (or woman) for themselves.

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#131952 - 08/28/01 07:49 PM Re: Random Thoughts: That Count
kenposan Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/23/01
Posts: 633
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
I think your idea is a good one because generally if you are going to get attacked on the street it is going to be a haymaker that is thrown at you, not at straight karate style punch>>>

Many attackers will use a straight punch, but I agree it is not a karate style punch. It is typically thrown from shoulder height with a lunge or perhaps a step. It is also the type of punch you most likely to get right after someone grabs you.

Peace

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#131953 - 10/26/01 01:20 PM Re: Random Thoughts: That Count
John Anthony Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/01
Posts: 28
Loc: Pottstown, PA, USA
You guys all seem to be missing the point of basic one-step sparring. Of course no one on the street is going to attack you in that fashion - announcing the target, waiting for you to get ready, and then attacking on a pre-set signal. It's training - not fighting or self-defense.

Basic one-steps are merely an introduction to contact for the novice student. Also called yakasuko (which means "promise" because you're promising to attack a specific target) kumite, the idea is to take out as many variables as possible to allow the *beginning* student to experience blocking and countering with as little danger of injury as possible. It's meant for white belts who can barely walk and chew gum at the same time.

Once students are comfortable with basic one-steps, they should proceed to jiyu yakasoku kumite, or "free promise sparring." Here the target is announced, but the attacker can attack at any time. Eventually, students should proceed to one-steps in which the attacker can attack with either hand or foot (straight or round attacks) at any time to any target. The process culminates with realistic self-defense scenarios.

Although basic one-steps are highly artificial (by design), they still provide valuable training (if done mindfully) in movement, balance, distancing, commitment, intent, eye-contact, etc., etc.

I'm sure you all know white belts (any beginning kyu level) who have difficulty performing their blocks while moving. And even as simplistic as basic one-steps are, I'm sure you've seen someone get popped once in a while. Just imagine all the bloody noses you'd see if you started them out on more difficult drills.

It's important to remember that everything we do in the dojo is training. It's not fighting or self-defense. And it's not an end in itself. The purpose of basic one-steps is not to get good at basic one-steps. It's only to serve as a bridge to more difficult and more realistic training. How realistic you eventually want to get becomes an individual choice depending on the level of risk of injury you're willing to assume.

--JA

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#131954 - 10/26/01 09:26 PM Re: Random Thoughts: That Count
romarcellus Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/10/01
Posts: 8
Loc: Canada
[QUOTE]Originally posted by John Anthony:
You guys all seem to be missing the point of basic one-step sparring. Of course no one on the street is going to attack you in that fashion - announcing the target, waiting for you to get ready, and then attacking on a pre-set signal. It's training - not fighting or self-defense.

[snip...]
--JA
[/QUOTE]

A point I was trying to make was that even
an experienced person can extract somebenefit from one-step by trying to read the attacker or defender better. However, if you approach it with the attitude "this is boring, I wish I was free-sparring" you will gain nothing from it.

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#131955 - 10/27/01 03:07 PM Re: Random Thoughts: That Count
John Anthony Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/01
Posts: 28
Loc: Pottstown, PA, USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by romarcellus:
A point I was trying to make was that even
an experienced person can extract somebenefit from one-step by trying to read the attacker or defender better. However, if you approach it with the attitude "this is boring, I wish I was free-sparring" you will gain nothing from it.
[/QUOTE]

My apologies. I guess I missed *your* point. Yes, I agree. If one trains mindfully, he or she should be able to benefit from even the most seemingly boring, basic drills.

--JA

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#131956 - 10/28/01 02:00 PM Re: Random Thoughts: That Count
romarcellus Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/10/01
Posts: 8
Loc: Canada
[QUOTE]Originally posted by John Anthony:

[snip..]
the idea is to take out as many variables as possible to allow the *beginning* student to experience blocking and countering with as little danger of injury as possible.
[snip..]
[/QUOTE]

I am quite new to instructing but I use the same approach to introduce students to free-sparring. Restricting the attacks, counter-attacks, etc...

One of the first things I do is to try and convince the student that while the attack may seem intimidating they do possess the ability to deal with it. I have a pre-arranged attack usually with just
chudan-jodan punches and have the defender just try and touch each punch in the flurry as they back up. They usually start by missing and over-parrying the punches, but after awhile they start getting the hang of it. They realize that all that time spent watching punches come at them in one-step actually was training the eye-hand co-ordination for this drill. Some are quite excited and surprised they are able to parry each punch in the flurry.

--- RM

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#131957 - 10/28/01 02:18 PM Re: Random Thoughts: That Count
romarcellus Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/10/01
Posts: 8
Loc: Canada
[QUOTE]Originally posted by John Anthony:

[snip...]

Although basic one-steps are highly artificial (by design), they still provide valuable training (if done mindfully) in movement, balance, distancing, commitment, intent, eye-contact, etc., etc.

[snip...]
[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately, I never really realized the value of it until I started training at a new startup dojo. As a nidan I was training with colored belts a few classes a week. As I started to look for ways to improve my skills I realized what you stated above. I simply needed to engage and open my mind.

I trained elsewhere with others my own rank and senior, but in the basic classes with colored belts I worked the details on my technique. I corrected breathing problems, posture problems, all kinds of little flaws. The techniques in the classes were simple enough that I could focus 90% of my attention on a flaw I was working to correct.

The basic classes allowed me to finally move to new level in my study. It was and still is very exciting.

Later,
-- RM

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