Hello Ronin,
I feel that shotokan has turned into more of a sport now days instead of an Art.And would like to see it get back it's more traditional sense.

I agree with you. In Shotokan too much emphasis is placed upon sport. More focus must be placed on effective training drills and technquies. It is only through the study of kata that many technquies can be found.

i think both are important. martial arts must primarily be about self protection and associated strategies but in australian society there is less need to spend great amounts of time developing these skills for everyday practical use. in this sense the sport aspect is an adaption to meet the times and make the martial arts more enjoyable and community based than they previously were. the sport emphasis is part of keeping the martial arts alive but it cant overwhelm the system to the point where it deadens the functional and original self defence concepts.
cheers
morgan buchanan

I think it all depends on your Sensai.
If it has been drummed into you that kumite is nothing without good kihon and kata, then you can enjoy Karate as an Art and a sport.

The reality of karate as a self defence system I thought was a good one. However, in recent times I have discovered that many teachings of karate do not cover serious street defence.
In short, the best many can hope for is a split second better reaction, a more confident approach to life and possible a greater range of weapons to use (although it has been noted that this can be a disadvantage).

I compare it to Sambon Kumite against Ju-ippon Kumite.
They both use very similar techniques, but their application is worlds apart.
Shotokan Karate as an art is indeed structured and beautiful, its fighting systems are only good within its own constraints.
The benefit of all this is that there are deeper realisations that can be gleaned, toward self perfection and knowledge.

I agree.

What holds your interest in the style of Shotokan?

agree with judderman on the sensei comment. training can be for many different purpose, it is up to one's self how they wish to train and for means

I love shotokan because it has a history thats not fity bazillion years ago... and Some thing about it just appeals to me...


Thanks,
Salek

Shotokan was/is my base art.

However I've strayed so far from it.

Shotokan was the Okinawan childrens Karate developed by master Itosu for them.

When the Japs who the Ok's hated demanded to be taught thier secret fighing art they were given the kids one as revenge.

Unfortunately the middle class japs who appropriated it were students of commerce like Kanazawa and Enoeda, not fighters.

So they turned the childrens karate into No Contact Competition Karate
Hence it is useless for the streets.

In order to make it work you have to trace it back to its roots when it was a fighting art practiced by fighters.

Nakayama was not taught Bunkai by Funakoshi the elderly school teacher he learned off for about 2 years!

By the way who graded Nakayama to 10th Dan oh yes it was himself. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

Lets not fool ourselves here
these are the facts.

I live and train in nwhere the top Uk guy is Andy Sherry.

Who also has never had a street fight in his life.

Nor has his partner Frank Brennan another 'Hight Graded' Karateka.

Two other top graded Shotokan Sensei got battered in our local nightclub by the bouncer, they both ended up in casualty, their one of them 'Billy Higgins' took the bouncer to court for excessive force. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

The reality of KUGB/JKA Shotokan is it is childrens karate and doesnt work on the streets.

I'm sure if you do some research you can find all the above info is fact.

Billy Higgins still has the scars from that beating if you dont believe me ask him how he got em.

And if he lies I know the guy who give him them Very Well. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]


MF

What does Washin mean?

Self defence vs Sport martial arts. Which is more important?[/QUOTE]


As a Shotokan student I thank you for starting this forum.
I think it can be very valuable.
In my Dojo we have a saying there is sport karate and there is real karate. I feel it important to keep the traditions of Shotokan karate. To fully realize the self defence aspects of Shotokan you really have to break it down, all the kata the bunkai. Question every thing constantly trying different tecniques and different stratagies. I find a lot of people take Shotokan as a hard straight forward line only. but it is much more. I have sparred many different styles of martial arts. My prefference has always been Shotokan realizing it is much more than just punching and kicking. Sport karate may look pretty at a tournament but could it save your life in an ally with little room to move I doubt it.