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#130825 - 10/15/04 01:44 PM Crossing The Line
Anonymous
Unregistered


I have a question for anyone who wants to reply to the topic, just your views and some of your experiences. So now my question is.

What kind of boundry do you set between yourself and your students (if your an instructor), and what boundries do you and your fellow classmates have.(universal)

Personally my boundry between myself and the students i taught. Was very strict to a point. Of course i would play and ahve fun with the kids but to an extent. They knew what was acceptable fun and what was not. Now let me tell you why i ended up like this.

For the longest time i wuodl help my instructor teach classes, and i never considered myself an instructor, i was always a student. One day we got a student who wanted to test his limits. Well as i was walking by, i didn't even do anything to him, but he tried to hit me, i saw this and just moved, of course he didn't hit me, but i jsut looked at him and kept walking by. Now i'm sure most if not all of you probably would of busted him on the spot, but i didn't cause i didnt want that kind of roll as an instructor.. I was helping class thats all. Well after class, a little later in the evening. I got into a little bit of trouble with my instructor. Now when i saw trouble not him yelling and me or punishing me. But him just explaining to me how i cant let them do it, and i need to more strict.. hehe YES SENSEI. Thats the day that established the line. See i will have fun with you but when i get into trouble for you messin around, thats crossing my line. After that, kids as well as other students knew better than to test their limits.. They lost!

(Black Belt) Also now with limits i know of an instructor/ student who refuses to get involved with others from the school. I never tried to get involved but i did know of her "rule" Seemed kind of funny to me considereding her ex boyfriend used to take classes there. How ironic. Now particular instructor, mean when she teaches.. Just looking at her you know better than to test the limits. Very respectable instructor, one day during a sparring session 2 students didn't stop fighting when she told them too.. Whoo.. busted!

(Black Belt) Now brings me to another instructor, whom i learned a lot from! Taught me jsut about everything about teaching. Hes a very big instructor, towers over everyone, very stalky too. Very strict, loud voice it can carry clear across the room and outside. Everyone respects him completely.

(Black Belt) And for my final instructor, her boundry is not really established, students pretty much walk all over her, and the bad part is she never says anything to them, just looks at them and keeps going. Sadly she will never gain any respect, she almost never works the students or punishes them, i remember i walked in on a class, and i'm not kidding she played Games with them for the entire class. I had parents begging me to take over. But i told them i cant its her class. One of the other instructors, was looking at her and asking her what she was doing? But when she had rather large classes and low rank students she had no idea how to teach them. Needless to say she lost a lot of respect from everyone that day. I'll give her that she is relatively young (13 at the time) But if shes old enough to teach then she should be demanding respect as wel as giving it back to them.

I totally understand how each and every instructor has their differences and similarities; I myself have taken little things from every instructor as well as have given some of my methods and ways to others. Each instructor grows and learn by seeing. I really do agree with the quote of having a black belt is a new beginning. You never stop learning! Your students teach you things, you discover new things. If anyone would like to comment or respond. Then by all means do so..

My Original question:
Whats Your Boundries, and When Is It "Crossing The Line"

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#130826 - 10/19/04 12:00 PM Re: Crossing The Line
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3113
Loc: East Coast, United States
Good Afternoon Shuri_DudeBB:

As for boundries... not many. It depends on where you wish to set them. In class I am a sensei... outside of class I am merely an adult, a husband, a person just like you, no different, better or worse. With "peers" mine thankfully have worked with me a very long time. You let the person know what you intend and where you are "at" mentally. That way no surprises. Use words...

With children that's a truly hard thing. They rarely understand the concept of lines!!! Even ten years ago they did, now... for no known reason they "do not get it" far too often. The young ones feel free to mischeviously try and hit the teacher. They are called on it but with little effect. They hurt their hands...

<<students didn't stop fighting when she told them too..

That happens. Her JOB is to prevent that.
Its called the ~red zone~. Primal, animal response that doesn't comprehend words too well...

<<he's a very big instructor, towers over everyone, very stalky too. Very strict, loud voice it can carry clear across the room and outside. Everyone respects him completely.

That's doesn't sound like respect that is FEAR of someone. Very different things...

<<her boundry is not really established, students pretty much walk all over her,

From your perspective. But hers is what matters... is SHE gaining from her students what she seeks. If so our perspectives are irrelevent...

<<Sadly she will never gain any respect

[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/confused.gif[/IMG] How do you define this respect? Am I mistaken, it seems that you confuse inane militancy for power. Am I mistaken?

<<large classes and low rank students she had no idea how to teach them.

It is a learned skill, period. It sounds like there are several layers of problems.
I pray I did not read you correctly... a thirteen year old child CANNOT teach!!! They lack any kind of life experience... and should never BE expected to teach. Assist, fine... but teach a large class, no.
They lack the necessary skills on any level.

A child is not a teacher...

Jeff

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#130827 - 10/19/04 12:42 PM Re: Crossing The Line
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ronin1966- Hello! And Good Day to you to!

The boundries i have the same ones as you, in the karate school i'm an instructor, But outside i laugh i play with them and they call me by my first name. an so on..

Children- Wow! I love kids.. they are soo much to teach, especially the young ones (5-6) you never know whats gonna come out of their mouths soemtimes, or what they are going to do. Now my experience with children, i've only had a few that didn't understand the line. Those are the ones that sadly enough come in with very little discipline or respect.. I'm not judging how ppl raise there kids by no means, but thats seems to be the student that tests the limits.

<<students didn't stop fighting when she told them too..>>

Yes totally happens, and yes it was her job to prevent that.. She doesnt feel like she should have to get in there between 2 people fighting to have to break them, up simple yame should be enough, i was jsut saying when they didn't break she did get in there and break them up, but after that she told them to cut it out, and let the rest of the class know not to do that.


"<<he's a very big instructor, towers over everyone, very stalky too. Very strict, loud voice it can carry clear across the room and outside. Everyone respects him completely.

That's doesn't sound like respect that is FEAR of someone. Very different things..."

Agreed, does sound more likefear than anything.

<<her boundry is not really established, students pretty much walk all over her,

From your perspective. But hers is what matters... is SHE gaining from her students what she seeks. If so our perspectives are irrelevent...<<

Wow! I could go on and on bout this one, Not just from my perspective, everyone else knows this too. Her biggest problem is shes young. Now from MY perspective, no shes no gaining anything from them except a headache. There have ben numerous students i've known of that hav quit cause they dont like how she is with the students, very rude, mean, and arrogant... again.. my perspective.

<<Sadly she will never gain any respect>>

No. Respect. No not for the students, to fear her. But like basic respect, know how to listen to what she says, pay attention, dont run all over her doing whatever you want. Just really student etiquette.

Yes you did read me right, 13 year old instructor. I agree to with the students that young should not be able to teach. Shes got about 9-10 yrs experience in that school. And really has nothing to show for it. People say well she earned the black belt she should be able to teach.. umm no! Help yes. But as you said they lack any real life experiences.

"<<large classes and low rank students she had no idea how to teach them.<<

It is a learned skill, period. It sounds like there are several layers of problems.
I pray I did not read you correctly... a thirteen year old child CANNOT teach!!! They lack any kind of life experience... and should never BE expected to teach. Assist, fine... but teach a large class, no.
They lack the necessary skills on any level.

A child is not a teacher..."

Thak you for your input Ronin1966

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#130828 - 10/19/04 01:23 PM Re: Crossing The Line
MAGon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1737
Loc: Miami, Fl.
Dave Lowry in his book "Persimmon Wind" has a chapter/ essay on the role of teacher/ master and student/ apprentice. It's interesting because he uses Kitaro, the Japanese artist's, U.S. tour to illustrate his point. A big problem presented itself because of the clash between Kitaro's Japanese view of his role and his western musicians initial negative reaction to it. Anyway, a somewhat off- subject comment on the issue raised. For whatever it's worth!

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#130829 - 10/21/04 10:24 PM Re: Crossing The Line
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3113
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello Again Shuri_DudeBB:

<<Yes you did read me right, 13 year old instructor.

I wish they had an emoticon for severe weeping in the smiles legend.... I would be weeping severely for you....

A child that age is incapable of teaching adults or children in any kind of group without severe and close supervision. Not because their physical technique execution is poor,

Purely because they cannot possess the emotional maturity required... they lack the verbal skills and definately the life experience necessary... even in 3 or 4 years she might well possess the presence and togetherness to do it... but never now... not solo.

You write a very tragic tale. I am genuinely sorry...

I take it she is your so called senior in ranking?

Jeff

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#130830 - 10/22/04 10:15 AM Re: Crossing The Line
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ronin1966:

LOL i wish i could find a smiley that a severely disgusted, yet sad face.. I do agree with you on this instructor not having the emotional maturity to be teaching. Teaching kids younger than her is one thing, but then she teaches the adult class, where there is not one person in there younger than her. Its really sad. But hey... Oh well! I thank you for your condolensces... I'm sorry for me too! LOL. Yes she is my "senior in ranking" Sadly enough she outranks almost everyone.. Shes my instructors daughter, shes 2nd in rank right now, and 3rd whenever her sister comes back.

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