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#128377 - 01/13/05 11:09 PM Aikido and street fighting
Anonymous
Unregistered


Is aikido rrly that affective in a street fight, especially in boxing or against another who knows tkd, kra maga....etc?

Since aikido is considered "soft", can't you use those techiniques and make it "hard" on your own desire? Use it as an aggresoor not only as a defender?

[This message has been edited by student1 (edited 01-14-2005).]

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#128378 - 01/13/05 11:29 PM Re: Aikido and street fighting
Anonymous
Unregistered


If you talk in terms of "hardness" or "softness" of technique or application, you have totally missed the point - it is neither hard nor soft, and it is both hard and soft.

And if you intend to use aikido (or any martial art) as an aggressor, then you have totally missed the point of learning martial arts.

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#128379 - 01/14/05 12:45 AM Re: Aikido and street fighting
senseilou Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2082
Loc: Glendale, Az.
What do you mean by street fighter? If you mean a fight between you and an average Joe who takes offense to something you said or did, it will work just fine. There are alot of so called tought guys on the street that don't know to fight, and play on their intimidation factor. I had a student once who was 6'2' 360 pounds. His attitude was he would just grab someone and squeeze them till they passed out, He thought he was a great street tough guy, size and attitude. I tried to explain to him his theory was all wrong and let him grab me. we all know things like eye pokes and ear claps, face rakes but I was not going to use them. He picked me up and started to squeeze and I went totally limp, dropped the weight in my butt, and he kept squeezing till he almost had a heart attack. I never seen a persons face that red, I actually had to control his breathing for him. It was a horrible experience for him, he thought he was going to die. I explained I made him hold both out weights, and he found out he wasn't so tough after all. There are common misconceptions about being a street fighter. If you face a gang, and they have had fights with other gangs, that kind of person you will most likely not get an Aiki lock on them. They are all over the place. Not saying it can't be done, but you must nuetralize their attack, and you need to cause pain too. Those kind of explosive type fights, you will not get an Aiki lock. Look at a boxing match. Look how many punches are thrown on one round more or less an entore fight. 100 punches a ropund are not uncommon. Connect rate at 30-40% and you get his 30-40 times in 3 minutes. I don't guess it would happen just like that on the street, but you get a brawler and he is just swinging away you may get tagged a bit. You may want to read the thread under this one about form and function. Taking hits in the dojo is a good way to be prepared in case you take some on the street. If I use locks, its an aftermath of some serious striking first.

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#128380 - 01/14/05 09:14 AM Re: Aikido and street fighting
Anonymous
Unregistered


I think it is a bad idea to think of hard and soft, aggressive or defensive, etc. The only grouping should be "this is usefull" and/or "this is not usefull" and that's it.

Aikido is defensive is a real surface level way of looking at things. My opinion is that aikido is an entire art. It is both yin and yang. If it were just defensive, then it could not be a complete art. They should say that "aikido is defensive in early stages of learning" and generally for a good reason.

However, I'm not convinced you have to actively strike to then get a lock (although it is a MUCH higher percentage strategy than hoping the attacker attacks in such a simplistic way that you can be totally defensive!). I'd say that when you start to learn - you have no chance of using that stuff on the street - and the same is true for karate and judo as well!!! Then you get better, and people who take body impacts are toughened enough to have a much better chance of doing something for real - but still it's a lot more about luck and natural ability than training for quite a while.

Eventually, training works period. In aikido, it generally seems like it takes longer because we are trying to skip a lot of the surface level stuff or at least not focus there. The surface level stuff is not bad and can work well - but it's just generally not the focus of most aikido schools.

So, does it really work. Yes - but if you are concerned about speed, I'd recommend that you take up boxing and learn to defend a kick. (Kempo would be good for learning the basics of that quickly.)

Rob

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#128381 - 01/14/05 12:53 PM Re: Aikido and street fighting
senseilou Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2082
Loc: Glendale, Az.
However, I'm not convinced you have to actively strike to then get a lock

I am just wondering and not criticizing understand, but wonder have you ever been in a real fight? If you have did you use you Aikido. Have you ever tried to use your Aiki skills against a Karateka or wrestler? I am asking because the attacks are not the same as in Aikido and not done in the same way. If you get in a sparring scenario, it is very hard to get a hold of their striking hand, you can try to take advantage of openings, but how if you can't lock? Having trained in both, I don't feel you will get your Aiki in a sustained attack using combinations. You would have to change your range and work on the grappling , versus locking. I know I am going to catch hell for this but here goes anyway. One of the biggest lessons I have learned in cross training is RANGES. There is striking range(punch and kicking range)locking range, and grappling range. Aikido does not teach or concern themselves with or teach range. The approach is to just get the lock they want. Karateka know about ranges especially in sparring, kicking range and striking range. Wrestlers and grapplers close the range to get their takedowns. An Aikidoka does not practice how to defend against a boxer's jab to keep you at a distance, or a KArateka kicking. I have to tell you I have seen so may Aikidoka susceptible to kicks, they just can't handle them or combination kicks, or kicks and strikes. You have to take advantage of any opening an attacker gives you, and if he punches, he has to give you his front leg, arm, and rib cage. While Aikido adresses getting the arm, the ribs and front leg are left untouched, which very well could create a secondary attack. If you are not convinced, I certainly am not going to convince you. But if you haven't already done so, get out of the Aiki venue and train with someone else and see if you can get your Aiki on another type of attack than Aiki. You may be much better than me, but I believe you will play hell trying to deal with a non AIki attack without some sort of atemi waza.

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#128382 - 01/14/05 08:44 PM Re: Aikido and street fighting
Anonymous
Unregistered


Because aikido involves grabbing another's arm and such to put them down, what if your oppenent is a type that swings. I learning a little bit of aikido and is very interested in the art, but on my free time, i enjoy boxing with my friends and such. I try to use the things i learn and i don't find it to help much. Maybe its because i haven't the art long enough, but i am not able to avoid my oppenents strikes.

Some of my friends study kra maga, takewondo and karate. How can you use aikido style against them?

[This message has been edited by student1 (edited 01-14-2005).]

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#128383 - 01/18/05 01:55 AM Re: Aikido and street fighting
Anonymous
Unregistered


Some of my friends study kra maga, takewondo and karate. How can you use aikido style against them?

practice with them. not to be a smarty pants but thast really how you will learn to deal with different styles. get a good solid understanding of the techniques you want to try and apply. know the underlying principles. then take that technique adn make it your own. practice practice practice.

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#128384 - 01/18/05 05:27 AM Re: Aikido and street fighting
Anonymous
Unregistered


The likelihood of someone with sufficient MA skills trying to start a fight is highly unlikely. Again I will say it all depends on the individual and the situation. If it were to happen it depends on how skilled the attacker may be in his art and the same with yourself. If you've practiced aikido for 10+ years and at dan grade level and were to be attacked by a krav maga practitioner who's been training for 1-2 years, I think the aikidoka would most probably be successful in defending himself against the attacks.

Remember, aikido along with most other ma wasn't developed so we could go around streetfighting. Furthermore aikido isn't 100% defensive, we do use atemi. I have been taught to use this primarily to distract and unbalance the attacker, not necessarily to inflict injury.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by student1:
Because aikido involves grabbing another's arm and such to put them down, what if your oppenent is a type that swings. I learning a little bit of aikido and is very interested in the art, but on my free time, i enjoy boxing with my friends and such. I try to use the things i learn and i don't find it to help much. Maybe its because i haven't the art long enough, but i am not able to avoid my oppenents strikes.

[This message has been edited by student1 (edited 01-14-2005).]
[/QUOTE]

If your attacker throws a swinging punch, all the better to deal with him as his balance woud not be strong and it's a strike you can see coming rather than if it were a jab. A swing is quite a committed strike so it would be most likely you would be able to exploit his movement and energy, something aikido utilises in most of its techniques.

I agree with Thaiboxer, try practicing with people who study a different art.

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#128385 - 01/18/05 12:15 PM Re: Aikido and street fighting
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chanters:
The likelihood of someone with sufficient MA skills trying to start a fight is highly unlikely. [/QUOTE]


Why?

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#128386 - 01/18/05 07:21 PM Re: Aikido and street fighting
Anonymous
Unregistered


WHY?

Because the aim of learning MA is not to fight or show off. The aim of learning MA is to develop (higher/spiritual) awareness and (higher) consciousness, and the interconnectedness of all things in nature. Satsuninto katsujinken - the sword that kills is also the sword that gives life.

I can teach anyone to kick and punch. I can teach someone how to disable, maim and kill. But I can't teach them how to un-hurt or un-kill someone, coz when they're hurt or dead, that's it...GAME OVER. DO NOT INSERT CREDIT.

UNDERSTAND? GAME OVER. NO MORE EXTRA LIVES.

Don't you watch the Karate Kid? :-)

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