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#128202 - 12/26/04 04:35 AM Sensei Lou
mugen Offline

Registered: 06/12/04
Posts: 52
Loc: Davis, CA, USA
Sensei Lou, please tell us about the Hawaii arts that you currently study. How does it complement or compare to the Japanese arts such as Aikido and Karate? Thank you!

#128203 - 12/26/04 02:00 PM Re: Sensei Lou
senseilou Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2082
Loc: Glendale, Az.
Pretty interesting question. To begin with I think mind set is more of an issue than technique. My Hawaiian arts are Lua,native Hawaiian Art, Dazan Ryu Jujutsu, a Japanese base, but Hawaiian influence, and Kempo Jutsu, a combination of Kempo, Kajukembo and Jujutsu. Also Kosho Ryu Kempo which has a Hawaiian/Japanese Heritage. After leaving Aikido, everything I learned I related to my Aikido training. So an outward block was Kotegaeshi, a technique may be related to Ikkyo or Shihonage. So everything I learn, I relate to my Aikido practice, except I employ the Principles and Concepts of the art that I am doing. I believe having done this that there are more similarities in what we do than differences. The differences become in approach, mindset and concept.If you look at Dazan Ryu techniques, the names of technique are different, but the basis are the same. Kata Dori is kotegaeshi, however is much more small circle, yet not as small as Wallly Jays Small Circle Jujutsu. All that has happened here is the circle is continually being made smaller, to the point, it becomes linear or spiral like in Lua So once again, its more approach that is different, if you chose to look at it that way. Lua is not as formal as the Japanese arts, or formal for that matter at all, but is tied to cultural aspects of Hawaii. You can see the same Bujutsu mentality of Lua, but not in a refined state as the Japanese arts. Remember Lua was a Native Art, and until the late 1800's Hawaii like Japan was isolated from everyone else. So they mainly fought with each other to gain control of the islands. They fought with everything from oars to strangling cords, but that is not much different than the Okinawan weapons. So the similarities are great if you can see it. Lua is based on taking the attacker apart, literally and figurtively. Leaving an attacker broken in pieces was their main function, so that person,village, or island could come back to fight again. Lua technique hurt, botom line, and incorporates, skin ripping, bone breaking, scalping, and devastating throws. Again to disable the attacker. One note most people don't know that Lua is based on an animal system like Kung Fu, Shark, Squid, Boar, Hawk,Crab and Butterfly. Lua is very nature based, and everything is related to Nature in some way.

Danzan Ryu was created by Dr. Henry Okazaki who learned Jujutsu in Japan. The Jujutsu he learned was before the creation of Judo, so his art, is very Judo looking. Professor Okazaki also learned Lua in Hilo Hawaii and incorporated it in his Danzan Curriculum. Lua was Kapu, or forbidden for non-Hawaiian to learn. So Dr. Okazaki hid the Lua in the Danzan techniques, but there are some 43 Lua techniques in Danzan. This is not rumor or conjecture. Last summer I trained in Hawaii with one of the few left original Okazaki studnets, and he presented me with the original Lua techniques, and helped me find them in the system. Since that time, I have recieved from an unnamed source, notes from Professor Okazaki's top student and the actual classification of techniques. Having trained in Lua, there are some commonalities, so Danzan does have some Hawaiian influence. In Hawaii in the 30's through the 50's all styles trained with each other, many times people would show up to train with each other. It was quite different than today. John Chow Hoon(William Chows brother)studied Jujutsu from Professor Okazaki, but also learned Kempo from his Brother, and father, so his art had a combination of both Kempo and Jujutsu. Also Chow Hoon and William Chow also taught Kempo at Okazaki's dojo and there was a Kempo curriculum there as well. Cross training is nothing new like some people think, it was being done in the 20's in Hawaii.

My Hawaiian Kempo is Kempo, Kajukembo and Jujutsu. This style is very closely related to Motobu's Okinawan Kempo and you can see the similarities. The common thread of all these is the attention to striking. Lua as well , strikes, before taking joint locks. I think the biggest difference in Aikido is the striking before the the locking. I am not talking a bout a punch, but rather flowing hand feet combinations to set up locking. As far as Karate, the versions of Kempo really vary, Ed Parkers, Shaolin, Kempo Jutsu all really vary. However the big difference between this and Okinawan or Japanese Karate is the attention to flowing striking, and not as linear as say Shotokan, but not as circular as Wado. Kempo Jutsu has all movements circle, semi circle and liear involved.

Getting away from technique, Aikido is more of a philosophical study, and its tennents of Harmonious Ki, greatly differ from the break them apart Hawaiian Arts. Danzan Ryu still incorporates the tennents of a Ju art, but still has much more to the curriculum than say Judo.Kosho Ryu is very much like Aikido in its philosophical study, and you can see the original Japanese art of it, but it has lost a bit of that flavor and is more just eastern based.

I could take another 5 pages for this, so I will stop now, but the question goes much deeper. I think to narrow it down, its approach, mind set and philosophy that changes in Hawaii vs Japn or Okinawa.

#128204 - 02/28/05 01:03 AM Re: Sensei Lou

Sensei Lou
In the mid 1930 Charles Kenn learned all 46 lua holds taught to Prof. Okazaki. Prof Okazaki did not know the names and Charles gave him the Hawaiian names. In March 6,1940, Mr. Roy M. Frisen delivered a speech to the Hawaiian Anthropological Society " that stated that Prof. Okazaki learned 46 holds from a man from Hilo/Puna, Hawaii. All the holds were dislocating joints and not bone-breaking or death-dealing. Also, the following high ranking Okazaki students have stated that Prof. Okazaki did not inform anyone of the Lua holds to include Antone Gonzalas, Jack Wheat, Wally Jay, and David Nuuhiwa. (there are others). Some of Prof. Okazaki students have tried to determine which techniques have lua influence, but to my knowledge have not been able to state which are and which are not. So, if you can share yours souces, would be interested to look at your sources.

#128205 - 02/28/05 01:09 PM Re: Sensei Lou
senseilou Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2082
Loc: Glendale, Az.
Are you the same Olohe Jerry Walker? If indeed you are, we met at Olohe Kaihewalu's seminar in Oahu, last June at the middle school. I was one of the instructors Saturday but also studied with Olohe Kaihewalu Friday and Sunday. As for my information, my source is in your backyard. Professor Libert O'Sullivan gave me a copy of the 43(I think) Lua techniques and went a step further and made notes for me on where the Lua techniques were in the Danzan curriculum. My knowledge of Japanese is limited but what we called a certain technique was not the same as what Professor Okazaki called his. Ryote to me was an attack not a technique. To Professor Okazaki this was a technique in the Yawara group of techniques. So Professor O'Sullivan helped me by putting each technique in each group for me. So when I got back I cross referenced the techniques. Professor O'Sullivan was a great help and a wonderful man. It was so great of him to spend the time with me. We talked all Saturday morning, and then Sunday he gave me the techniques, and showed me some.

Studying with Olohe Kaihewalu, I have seen some techniques common to both, yet they are common to other styles as well. I am sure you would know better than I what techniques are really from the Lua curriculum. However, Professor O'Sullivan did say Professor Okazaki did talk to some about the Lua techniques. When I started my search, most of todays Danzan students had no idea about the Lua techniques or that Professor Okazakieven learned them. A couple of seniors in the art suggested Profeesor O'Sullivan, but I didn't know who he was. I just happended to be at that seminar and he was there, with some other Hawaiian seniors. Olohe David Nuuhiwa was also there I believe.

From what I have heard, you would know more than myself. I do agree that the techniques that are in Danzan, are more locking and not bone breaking or killing techniques like most of the Lua techniques. I see a difference in approach. Lua really incoporates more breaking , Danzan more locking. Lua breaks the spine or locks the spine(Ka'a'wili)Danzan locks the skeletal structure through other locks. So I see an different ideaology. Also, when Haoles get their hands on something, you know what happens. So what I see in Danzan to me is a facsimile of Lua techniques, not the real thing, but that is my opinion. I talked with a student from the Olohe Pagliawan(sorry about the spelling)and was told much about the Lua that is not taught to anyone but pure Hawaiians. He did not share technique with me, but told me of the history and culture a bit more.My big question is this. Lua was always for Hawaiians only, and was not shared to outsiders until recent history(Olohe Kaihewalu in the 70's). How did a Japanese man get Lua in the 20's or 30's?

I have Professor O'Sullivan's address here somewhere, but I am sure you probably have it. He is my source for the link between Lua and Danzan. Most people I have talked with really don't care one way or the other and tell me I am wasting my time. However I have found it very interesting. If one looks at Lua, especially the throws(or putting them in the pit)it looks like Jujutsu. If you look at some Jujutsu, it looks like Lua. I was just talking with someone in Hawaii and he was telling me that the Guillitine choke was used by the Lua Warriors and when applied on the beach during a battle, the warrior would back down to the water, choke and drown the victim at the same time. An interesting approach to an old choke. Anyway, a long answer to a simple question.
If you want e-mail me and I can send you a list of where in Danzan Professor O'Sullivan showed me where the techniques were. Hope I helped. its great to have a chance to talk with you.


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