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#127940 - 09/23/04 05:24 PM police
Anonymous
Unregistered


first off i would like to say that since reading this forum i have gained a great deal of respect not only to Akido but for all MA. a little about myself i'm 5'5 145 male and a police officer i'm looking to get into MA my parnter is into Judo and swears by it to be best for are line of work but after reading about Akido i believe that akido is more practical on the bases of not harmimg your enemy which means no brutality law suit i dael with fighting situation on the street alot (or trying to not) so would Akido be the MA for me any feedback will be welcome and thanks for all the people that post info it makes it very easy for people like me to get the right scoop on MA

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#127941 - 09/24/04 12:40 AM Re: police
mugen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/04
Posts: 52
Loc: Davis, CA, USA
try looking up Robert Koga and his system of police Aikido

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#127942 - 09/24/04 05:00 AM Re: police
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hey Mighty Mouse!

Many police forces all over the world practice aikido particularly the Japanese riot police who train solid for one year before reaching qualification.

I personally prefer aikido and find most of the techniques can be applied in most situations. It's also good for disarming people who may have a knife, bottle, baseball bat etc which I assume you'd probably face in your line of work. The fundamental principle in traditional aikido is to make sure no injury comes to you or the attacker, so this would prevent lawsuits which you mentioned.

I would try a variety of MA to see which suits you best.

Best wishes

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#127943 - 09/24/04 05:12 AM Re: police
Anonymous
Unregistered


I personally think Judo would be better. It tooks time to be good in Aikido... After 10 years, yes, you can use Aikido in real situation... But it really does take ten years to control enemy so that he won't be wounded.

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#127944 - 09/24/04 09:14 AM Re: police
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by White Lotus:
I personally think Judo would be better. It tooks time to be good in Aikido... After 10 years, yes, you can use Aikido in real situation... But it really does take ten years to control enemy so that he won't be wounded.[/QUOTE]

A ridiculous assumption that aikido takes ten years. I don't know why people keep making this assumption. Please provide an argument for which you find aikido will take 10 years to be able to "control the enemy" instead of just repeating other peoples false comments.

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#127945 - 09/24/04 11:39 AM Re: police
Anonymous
Unregistered


Morihei could do it... But that dont mean you can do it, He was in Karate, Judo, Jujutsu, etc. He could use attackers energy, but this all dont happen in a second.


I'm not saying Aikido isn't good, but it takes time to really be able to use it.


[This message has been edited by White Lotus (edited 09-24-2004).]

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#127946 - 09/25/04 07:37 AM Re: police
Anonymous
Unregistered


I would say that it is worth looking at aikido or aiki jujutsu for your police work, especially the locks for control and restraint. Yes it does take time to be good at aiki 'do' but surely this is the same for many martial arts-time and dedication is needed to become proficient, however I think that learning locks from aikido/jujutsu will benefit the officer in his line of work and for future progression within martial arts.

the locks are not too hard to learn and will be usefull tools in your arsenal, learning the principles of aiki, and whole body movements and flow are the hard parts and will take time to learn.

if you find a good teacher, one that is willing to give you knowlegde and not hold you to a syllabus or certain level you will learn and progress faster. Perhaps you could do some cross training with your friend who does judo to get some good ground work.

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#127947 - 10/04/04 04:23 AM Re: police
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chanters:
A ridiculous assumption that aikido takes ten years. I don't know why people keep making this assumption. Please provide an argument for which you find aikido will take 10 years to be able to "control the enemy" instead of just repeating other peoples false comments.[/QUOTE]

In judo and MMA you fight against fully resisting oponents from day one, this is why it is more effective more quickly. Its that simple. In aikido randori vs a fully resisting opponent is advanced practice and it takes years to get there. Ive been doing aikido for 5 and half yeras and I only get to practice full randori probably a couple of times a month (most of the time we do 20 mins kokunage at the end of class instead).

Most aikidoka I know cant control me when Im being awkward unless they are either much more advanced than me or much stronger. In my mma (Mixed martial arts) class there are guys who have been prcticing for about 2 to 3 years who can take me down and control me. For real conflict Judo and the Mixed martial arts are more imediately effective than aikido due to their training methods IE: the actualy fight fully resisting oponents every time they get on the mat.

That doesn mean Im going to give up aikido though. I love it too much and plan on being in the dojo till a ripe old age. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

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#127948 - 10/04/04 02:30 PM Re: police
senseilou Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2082
Loc: Glendale, Az.
Assumption, Aikido takes 10 years to learn. Fact, depends on the person, if you have some martial art training, it doesn't take as long. If you have no training and train 4-5 times a week, it doesn't take 10 years. It depends on how you practice, how much you practice and who you practice with. Many American Sensei will teach slowly and it may take 10 years to do so. You may have a Japanese Sensei who doesn't take so long. Most Japanese Sensei are higher rank than non Japanese Sensei so the Instruction may be better.

Assumption, Judo will work better for police work. Fact, while Judo may deal with resistance from the get go, its sport oriented and is predicated on someone grabbing you. Judo is not set up for using in police work. Police not always are faced with someone grabbing them and in many cases, have to deal with a percieved attack and can not wait to be grabbed or punched. If you can not strike(which most officers can't)I suggest Taiho Jujutsu which is the arresting techniques of Japan. Its Judo before the competiton set in and is more Jujutsu oriented. Make no mistake Judo can be adapted to for Police work, but that can take as long as learning Aikido. David Dye also has some Aikido for police and is carried by Panther productions. Bernie Lau also has some tapes available for police and is AIki oriented.

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#127949 - 10/07/04 06:47 AM Re: police
Anonymous
Unregistered


A good question...and as seen above one that is difficult to answer. It really depends what is required from your MA, police work is a bit to vague for me. Do you need self defence skills, ie are you attacked often. Or is it more that you need restraining skills?
I study Aikido and cringe everytime I watch police dragging off rioters...usually with one on each arm trying an armlock and the protestor is still struggling! If an armlock is on properly One person is more than enough and the person will not want to do anything other than relieve the pain!!
I found that Karate/Muay Thai teach you to defend yourself first...then as you progress you develop more tools to be softer with an opponent. Aikido goes the other way where you first learn soft flimsy techniques and as you progress you learn how they work and have more power.
The final point I wish to make is that Aikido is practised in many different ways in many different clubs. Make sure you find a club where it is practised properly and is and feels effective. I have trained too many times in crappy schools where they think the opponent will just fall over with your willpower!!
I hope this helps and doesn't just confuse you!!

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#127950 - 10/21/04 03:09 AM Re: police
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hello, I am also a police officer. I would suggest Yoshinkan Aikido. It focuses on practical application. Someone mentioned that the Tokyo riot police must train in Aikido for a year. Yoshinkan Aikido is the style that they and every female officer must study

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#127951 - 10/21/04 05:37 PM Re: police
Anonymous
Unregistered


thank you all for your advice i have not replied due to checking out some schools

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#127952 - 10/22/04 02:19 AM Re: police
Anonymous
Unregistered


please keep in mind that which ever art you choose, you get out what you put in. if you trained for an hour a day you'll be amazed at the speed you'll become efficient. (not overnight mind you.)finding a good practice partner is also very beneficial. it will enable you to practice using your art in real world situations through role playing.

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#127953 - 10/22/04 04:53 PM Re: police
Anonymous
Unregistered


first i did a trail in judo, did not really like that it was mor guided to competition and they separate you in weight clases, i need to control subject that are much bigger than me. i also stood in a aikido class and loved it, it seem more practical for me (and i have a short fuse) so the philosophy is great for me. and once agian thank you all for your time. and i welcome any other advice

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#127954 - 10/23/04 10:09 PM Re: police
Anonymous
Unregistered


People say that those wrist lock and flip techniques don't work. They are full of it. If you aply enough pressure to someone's wrist, elbow, etc. they are going to flip. Period. I have only used one Aikido technique in a real fight (Tenchi Nage) and it works great.

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#127955 - 12/30/04 10:49 PM Re: police
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by senseilou:
Assumption, Aikido takes 10 years to learn. Fact, depends on the person, if you have some martial art training, it doesn't take as long. ...[/QUOTE]

I think this "10 years to learn" thing has been taken entirely out of context. The founder's original quote (from "The Art of Peace" translated by John Stevens) was "In your training, do not be in a hurry, for it takes a minimum of 10 years to master the basics and advance to the first rung"....

This to me means, it takes more than a while to become proficient in the basics before you reach the first level of understanding.

An interesting book I came across once - Norman, Donald A, (1993), "Things That Make Us Smart: Defending Human Attributes in the Age of the Machine" - states (vaguely - since I can't remember the exact quote) that for an average person to become proficient to a basic level of proficiency in any manual skill, would require at least 5000 hours of focused practice. (Roughly 2.5 years practicing 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, for 125 weeks).

This is true of any martial art. You cannot expect to be reasonably proficient in it without significant investment in time and effort. But it depends entirely on a number of factors:
1. you
2. your teacher
3. your inate ability
4. your teacher's ability to draw it out of you
5. your commitment, passion and focus
6. your prior training and level of understanding
etc. etc.

Let me ask this question:
Would you be confident of a commercial pilot's abilities to fly the plane in which you were a passenger with less than 3000 hours actual flight time? How about 100 hours?

So it takes time, everything in life does.

And a journey of a 1000 miles....

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#127956 - 04/09/05 11:20 PM Re: police
JAMJTX Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/01/02
Posts: 585
Loc: Fort Wayne, IN
As is often the case, I found this thread in google while looking for other information. I know it's an old thread but I just wanted to add my 2 cents about Aikido and Judo for police officers.

As to taking too long to learn, all I can say is it is like anything else - you get out of it what you put into it. If you practice regularly and diligently, you can progress quickly. If you want to be considered an "Aikido Master", then you are looking at decades of study. But that is a different goal than trying to become proficient enough to apply the techniques in self defense or as a police officer in the field.

Yoshinkan Aikido is more popular with police departments than other styles of Aikido. But I also know police officers who train with the Aikido Association of America and they swear by it. One Sheriff's Deputy who was teaching a class that I was in addressed the 'Aikido does not work" theory by saying "who ever said that never saw the look on a suspects face when he feels the locks".

To my knowledge, all Japanese Police Officers are required to be black belts in either Aikido or Judo. Many train in both.
Judo is excellent for police officers. But you have to train with a law enforcment oriented group. If you are a police officer training at the YMCA, a community center or a competition oriented club, then you will not get your needs met. But that can be said for any martial art. You have to train with someone who understands the needs of an officer and train with those needs in mind.
Take a look here for an article on a Judo seminar held for Police Officers: http://www.deputysheriff.org/INFORMANT-Winter04.pdf

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#127957 - 04/18/05 01:21 AM Re: police
Anonymous
Unregistered


I think most people see aikido as an art that cant be used within a 10 year peroid, but you are learning and memorising techniques so when a situation does arise you will know what to do straight away as you've done the technique that is effective for that attack a thousand times.

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#127958 - 04/19/05 02:28 PM Re: police
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hey mightymouse,

JAMJTX is right. All Japanese Police are taught Aikido. (I do believe Aikido is more common then Judo though. The way I've been tought is that Judo is mainly a compition sport.) You see them walk the streets with there Jo (4.5 foot stick). I watched 3 of them take down 5 US Sailors in front of a club in Yokohama. It is every effective. But true to of what JAMJTX said, your needs as an officer might require something more or something different.

We a X-Judo student in our class. He was a black belt. Our Sensai found out about this and when he teaches he tells the guy who knows Judo to attack him as he would in Judo. And everytime he is throwin down on the mat. The point is that no matter how he attacked the Sensai he was always bested. From practicing with the Judo guy I see there a advantages to it. But not as many as you will see in Aikido.

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#127959 - 04/20/05 03:00 PM Re: police
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by mightymouse:
first off i would like to say that since reading this forum i have gained a great deal of respect not only to Akido but for all MA. a little about myself i'm 5'5 145 male and a police officer i'm looking to get into MA my parnter is into Judo and swears by it to be best for are line of work but after reading about Akido i believe that akido is more practical on the bases of not harmimg your enemy which means no brutality law suit i dael with fighting situation on the street alot (or trying to not) so would Akido be the MA for me any feedback will be welcome and thanks for all the people that post info it makes it very easy for people like me to get the right scoop on MA[/QUOTE]

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#127960 - 04/20/05 03:10 PM Re: police
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by mightymouse:
first off i would like to say that since reading this forum i have gained a great deal of respect not only to Akido but for all MA. a little about myself i'm 5'5 145 male and a police officer i'm looking to get into MA my parnter is into Judo and swears by it to be best for are line of work but after reading about Akido i believe that akido is more practical on the bases of not harmimg your enemy which means no brutality law suit i dael with fighting situation on the street alot (or trying to not) so would Akido be the MA for me any feedback will be welcome and thanks for all the people that post info it makes it very easy for people like me to get the right scoop on MA[/QUOTE]

I've studied a lot of martial arts and I've been a police officer for 20 years. I have used aikido type techniques to subdue resisting suspects. However, I have also relied on judo type throws to take people down. My favorite take downs are osoto gari and the quick take arm bar. Sometimes I grab them from behind and pull them backwards. I've only taken formal aikido for about 4 months and I had some concerns about some of the techniques that I believe could be easily countered. However, Aikido does have a place in police work.

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