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#127924 - 11/18/04 01:06 AM Re: Attacks that dont rush in!
Ed Glasheen Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/21/03
Posts: 1379
Loc: Newburgh,NY,USA
Thank you, I would of liked to study with Chiba Sensei. So now I know you trained in traditional Aikido ( Ueshiba ). Alot of times you talk to Aikidoka from other off shoots which to me are not Aikido.
I find it odd that you feel the need to train in Philipino arts for your knife solutions? Anyway thanks for answering my question.
Ed

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#127925 - 11/18/04 07:22 AM Re: Attacks that dont rush in!
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi guys. I'm certainly not a knife expert. However, Ed, I think you misread my post. I didn't say cross you arms and "charge", in fact I wrote the opposite "make them come to you".

Also, I never said you wouldn't get cut. The idea of showing them the back of your forearms is that - since you are going to be cut, it is much better to take a cut there than the other side of your arms.

Also, I've been doing aikido long enough to know there is a time to grapple and a time not to grapple. Obviously, if you are in a multiple attack situation, and they have knives you don't want to lock up with someone - you dno't want to be there at all. But what I'm practicing doesn't result in locking up - it results in taking the knife and surviving.

I found a guy who's done his homework on knife defence and is pretty solid with any kind of attacker. Solid doesn't mean survive without a scratch on him. I'm trying to get him to do a knife class at an aikido seminar in Boston next year. If you are still in New York, let me know if you are interested in attending. I think you might like what you see.

Rob

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#127926 - 11/18/04 09:22 AM Re: Attacks that dont rush in!
csinca Offline
former moderator

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 672
Loc: Southern California
Ed,

I did respond to you on that other rather lengthy thread!

Chris

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#127927 - 11/18/04 10:54 AM Re: Attacks that dont rush in!
senseilou Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2082
Loc: Glendale, Az.
I find it odd that you feel the need to train in Philipino arts for your knife solutions?


I didn't say needed to, but that it helped understanding a Phillipino knife fighter to learn how to disarm. Actually I study Arnis for empty hands. i drop the Bastone and do the same techniques without it, that is the reason I study Arnis. Besides, why not? I am a strong believer if you understand the offensive movements its easier to find defensive movements. An example are "s" cuts with the knife. When I was in Aikido nobody discussed different knife grips or different knife cuts. When I face my first person using "s" cuts I was cut all over the place. So I find it always helpful to study the offense to learn a defense, same goes with kicks, the more you do them, you know how they work(technically)and make it easier to defens against a kicker

Ron I understand what you are trying to do, but the way you are going about it is dangerous with an experienced knife fighter.

Finally Ed, why do you question studying Arnis for knife, just wondering?

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#127928 - 11/18/04 07:16 PM Re: Attacks that dont rush in!
Ed Glasheen Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/21/03
Posts: 1379
Loc: Newburgh,NY,USA
I do not feel that the arnis, kali ect, training is realistic to what really transpires in the street and the battlefield. People do not dance around when they are playing for real. To odds of you facing another person with a knife, knife vs knife, stick vs stick are slim to none.
I also do not like the way these arts telegragh there moves...sort of like "west side story"
The Philipine arts are slashing arts. They are not really adaptive to improvised weapons such as a screwdriver. And lastly I was never a fan of ranging and tit for tat exchanges.
Ed

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#127929 - 11/19/04 12:10 AM Re: Attacks that dont rush in!
senseilou Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2082
Loc: Glendale, Az.
Ed.....you may be right, but I think its who is teaching it. Those tit for tat, and fancy tecniques are drills, not really self defense techniques. But again, I guess it depends on how its taught. Our Sensei who was trained under Remy Presas, and travled with him, stresses flow and drill versus self-defense, so we get both. the way he teaches knife is different also. So I guess it depends on who you see. I will tell you that when we show our knife work, people have been impressed with the reality of our empty hands and bastone work.

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#127930 - 11/19/04 10:19 AM Re: Attacks that dont rush in!
Anonymous
Unregistered


I would recommend the following as a good read: http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/knifelies.html

The idea of things being "lies" is not semantically correct, but it is good information.

I worked out with several of the guys who studied with Remy Presas too. It is good stuff, but "the art within your art" gets annoying when it is overused and misunderstood.

Rob

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#127931 - 12/07/04 06:12 AM Re: Attacks that dont rush in!
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by senseilou:
This is exactly the mind set I am talking about. The man is in your house for Christ sakes! He obviously didn't come for dinner. Its this mamby pamby "oh he didn't threaten me" crap that I am talking about. You have made my point. If you won't get aggressive and kick someones ass who has violated the sanctity of your home, and endanger your loved ones, you will never understand, and thats my point, you made it very well for me. One day you will wake up, sadly, its going to take someone hurting you or your loved ones before the message will sink in. Keep on waiting for them to do something, next time it could be an automatic weapon pulled, by the time you wait for his attack and decide he is a threat you will be dead. Great thinking partner![/QUOTE]

Wow what a reaction..
What is namby pamby about adding more than is necessary?
By your own admission, using the break and enter scenario. You kick this guys arse, and send him packing. You feel justified and vindicated for doing so. Later that same night he comes back with his automatic weapon and decides to ventilate you.
You do not know why he is in the house, you make assumptions based upon your fear based reactions.
Had you have shown control maybe the person would not feel the need to regain face.

How do you know the said person is even threatening your family? Again you do not.
It is all just speculation and delving into the realm of what if?

That very thing happened here in Brisbane Australia, a youth entered a persons house.
The resident being elderly came down with his rifle. He believed the youth had a gun, he shot the youth and killed him instantly.

When the police came it was discovered that in the dead of night the silohette he thought was a gun was nothing but a stick.
The boy entered on a prank, because the window was open.
Who did the boy threaten?
What sanctity did that boy violate?

The man shot first and asked questions later, he got off scott free, because of his age.
A boy is dead, because of foolishness and over reaction, because when the man could simply have been namby pamby and threatened, he chose to be aggressive and kill.

You show your arrogance and lack of understanding by your vigilante style MA attitude.
You live in a society based on fear, I am not surprised you post the way you do.

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#127932 - 12/07/04 08:40 AM Re: Attacks that dont rush in!
csinca Offline
former moderator

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 672
Loc: Southern California
That boy is dead because of his own foolishness. What business did he have "playing a prank" on an old man? How do you know he was just playing a prank, cause his buddy said so? What do you expect him to say after the fact "Yeah, my man there was going to rob the old dude?"

I'm not a violent person and I walk rather than see if trouble is going to start, but nobody has any business in my house without an invitation.

Chris

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#127933 - 12/08/04 02:20 AM Re: Attacks that dont rush in!
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by senseilou:
This situation goes round and round. You will always have people who deny you can get a lock on them and Aikidoka who swear they can. The argument is such that there is no answer. You can say you have the technique but let it go for fear of injury but what if your opponent hit you with full power and speed, you may never get the technique. Also strikes in combination , can be difficult to get with "dojo Aikido". On the flip side, most Karateka will deny the need for the locks and swear you'd never get them. If you do you can cause injury and if you don't the technique may not work. Personally I think both are good to have and one can compliment the other. Sometimes you need something beside hitting someone in the face, say a relative or friend. Locks really help here. Also it may help to have an offense if someone is in your house and you need to start the encounter. Aikido is mostly defensive, Karate can be both offensive and defensive. Like the boxer, the one who attacks all the time and the counter puncher. I know of an Aikido Sensei who found a burgular in his house. He faced the robber but did not attack. The robber stunned that he was not attacked, started a fire between the two, and the Aikido Sensei almost died in the fire. Instead of waiting for the robber to attack, he should have seized the moment and attacked the robber. I askled him why he didn't and he said, I wasn't sure what kind of attack to do, I always am defensive, I always counter act or neutralize an attack, I wasn't sure how to handle the situation. A liitle Karate training would have been a big help.[/QUOTE]

Basically this 'sensei' was most likely a good teacher and that is all.
Aikido isn't just defence or offence. If that is the thinking mode, then nothing he ever does will work.
The reason he didn't know what to do, was because he was thinking.

The whole idea of tai sabaki, randori, sparring etc, is to train the body. Put simply it is to build muscle memory.
During such an episode, he could have easily stepped forward, nothing more nothing less. That would have created a movement or opening for a movement.

ig.

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