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#127540 - 06/08/04 06:06 PM Yoshinkai
Artentreri Offline

Registered: 04/17/04
Posts: 12
Loc: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Been a while since I have been on this server, SenseiLou kinda took a distaste to me when I last posted on the Differences between Aikido and Aiki-Jujutsu. I am still confused, as he had some pretty strong words against what I had interpreted my Sensei's views on this topic (not meaning to stir anything up, but I do believe there was some misunderstandings) I study Yoshinkai Aikido, under a Sensei I am to believe as Kimeda Sensei, apparenty he is responsible for bringing this art to North america. I still for the life of me can't understand why he would believe Aiki-Jujutsu to be so beneath the teachings of actual Aikido. He seems to be geniune, and I deffinately have no intention belittling my Sensei's beliefs, but I have noticed that his teachings seem to be more offensive oriented then the actual teachings of Aikido seem to direct. You do of course use your opponents energy against them, but from the techniques I have also witnessed first hand, they seem to be far brutal as well. Maybe it is the style of Yoshinkai itself, I am not sure, please do explain. Again Sensei Lou I do not mean to offend you in any way, I just want to see your side of view, thank you.

#127541 - 06/09/04 02:31 AM Re: Yoshinkai
senseilou Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2082
Loc: Glendale, Az.
My wrath was not directed at you but your Sensei. I believe the quote was "Aiki-Jujutsu was for people who couldn't do Aikido". Not only was this wrong information, but it shows terrible disrespect for others in the arts. I have both Black Belts in Aikido and Aiki-Jujutsu, and have studied the history in depth. When a Sensei says something like this, and people let it slide, it only manifests itself, and you have a group of people believing in the wrong things. Any history book you will read will tell you that Aikido is an off shoot of Aiki-Jujutsu. I could go into the many differences, but there are that many similarities. Despite the general feeling that all Aikido is the same, and all Aiki-Jujutsu is the same, is wrong. It depends on how one trains in that art. The Yoshinkan Aikido I have been introduced to and some styles of Aiki-Jujutsu are hard to see the differences. If you look at Hakko Ryu Jujutsu and Yoshinkan Aikido, there is very little difference. The curricula may differ, but the application is much the same. However Tohei Aikido(Ki Society) and Yoshinkan are different in night and day. But to say that Hakko Ryu is anyway less an art than Aikido is just false. Someone in your Sensei's position should be promoting respect for other arts and not making false statements. And if someone(me in this case)doesn't try to stop the nonsense, it will continue to grow.
Though I didn't train in Yoshinkan Aikido, one of my Sensei's did, and I have the greatest respect for Shioda Sensei and Yoshinkan. My Sensei left after getting his 6th Dan and went on to study Jujutsu(pre 1887 version before Judo) and combined the Jujutsu he learned and his Yoshinkan Aikido to have a different interpretation of the two arts. I have recieved much criticism because my Japaneese Sensei combined two traditional arts and created his own.However, if you study both the Jujutsu and the Aikido you will see the similarites, one not better than the other, but rather different tools for different jobs. Our Jujutsu focuses heavily on takedowns and ground work, our Aikido heavily on locks and throws so together they are very effective.

My problem is the statement that Aiki-Jujutsu was some how easier to learn, or lesser in value than Aikido. I was not attacking you, but a Sensei who would make such a statement. To me, the most important thing in the Martial Arts is to be well rounded. So if you view a wheel with spokes, all spokes must be of equal lengths to keep the wheel from wobbling. When we study we should make sure all aspects are equal, it could be in technique, or in the arts we study. Aikido may serve your throwing needs, Aiki-Jujutsu may provide your locking needs(since Aiki-Jujutsu is a bit more linear in its locks than Aikido) and a bit more striking. So one is no less than the other, yet both are subject to weak striking where a striking art would help. Jujutsu would serve to help ground work. All should be done in equal earnest to try and stay rounded.

So my problem was not with you, but with what you wrote about.In this case I shot the messanger. One of my Sensei's told me to never repeat anything he says until I am 100% sure he isn't full of bull(sh$#) and that I believe what he says is true. I stand by that today, mistakes need to be corrected, as if we don't the arts will continue a downward spiral

#127542 - 06/09/04 09:34 AM Re: Yoshinkai
csinca Offline
former moderator

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 672
Loc: Southern California

I've never studied Yoshinkai but I know of it by reputation as maybe one of the "harder" styles of Aikido - and in no way do I mean this as better or worse. Regardless of O'Sensei's intentions, there are different styles of Aikido and they vary a pretty broad range.

Keep in mind that most people are going to think the martial art they practice is teh best, otherwise they would be doing something else. By the time you get to be an instructor or a shihan, you will have quite a bit of yourself invested in that art and it is not surprising that you might think your art is better than any other.

At this point I'll quickly point out that I personally agree with what Sensei Lou wrote and add that I have Aikido as my base art and I am constantly cross training looking at what other arts offer. I personally see great value in this approach (otherwise I wouldn't do it), but I know there are others that feel strongly that you should only study one art. That's their choice.

It sounds like what you have is a Sensei that has spent his life dedicated to one style of Aikido and it is human nature for him to think it is the best. He may also like strawberry ice cream more than any other. That doesn't mean you can't like chocolate better.



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