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#127425 - 03/04/04 12:51 AM what would you do?
senseilou Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2082
Loc: Glendale, Az.
I have a real dilema. How do you approach someone who obviously has wrong information, do you correct it, just let it pass, or acknowledge the person as "your right". I had dinner with two upper black belts. One said that Jujutsu was Judo without the throws. The opinions I have heard about handling this are:
1.of course tell the person they are not correct and explain what the true information is.
2. agree with him. I have had people tell me its not worth correcting them, as they most probably won't change their mind, and think you arrogant for telling them.
3. Just let it slide, because if you correct them, they have more information to screw it up. When they explain their reasoning they add your information and the scenerio gets worse.

My thinking is this.....How can you let it slide? Its proliferation of bad information. I realize everyone has a prespective and some biases, and they maybe spreading what was told to them. But if they have 90% of the information right, and 10% wrong, and they spread it about, it soon becomes 50% correct. I recently was told by a Martial artist that he was a student under O'Sensei. Ok, problem was he was 31 years old. My arithmatic may be off, but, O'Sensei was dead at this time. If we let this go, how many people will he influence. Again, if you correct him, if he was arrogant enough to say he was a student, he's lying, and he won't listen to you anyway. Some people say bad information really doesn't matter, as the people who study and know their history or philosophy will see the person for what he is, however he may tell perspective students the lie, and they believe the person on face value. I have heard numerous times that so and so was the number 1 student of an instructor and the instructor left the student his art,after he passed away and now he was the highest rank of the style. Only problem is the Instructor is still alive, in one case I had seen the supposed dead instructor the week before!
The bottom line here is , for some reason people feel they need to lie, change history, embellish their qualifications or knowledge and make claims that are not true. After a certain amount of time, these falsehoods become the truth, and the truth is not the truth. I am not talking about technique here, I could care less how someone does a techniques. What I am talking about are things like Shotokan is the striking art of Aikido, Jujutsu is always done on the ground, etc. So how do you handle the situation, what would you do?

#127426 - 03/04/04 06:54 AM Re: what would you do?
Cato Offline

Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 1636
I think Lou that I would be tempted to tell him my information and experiences are different to his, and leave it at that. I have both feet firmly in the "those who want to study will learn" camp. I don't really care about those who don't.

We've proved time and again on this board that people don't change opinions easily, and I suspect any attempt to "correct" wrong information would be a pointless exercise, unless the person you correcting is open to learning. Anyone who comes out with a statement that even a cursory look at judo and jujutsu would show to be false clearly hasn't bothered to learn, and I think it unlikely that they will start learning as an "upper black belt".

Having said that, I also think it would be wrong to agree, or appear to agree, with information you know to be inaccurate. I think you would be better placed stating your opinion and the reasons you hold it, and then agreeing to differ.

A bit like we do [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG]


#127427 - 03/04/04 07:17 AM Re: what would you do?
dazzler2 Offline

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 148
Loc: england
With something as obviously wrong as this I'd disagree.

If it was a mate I'd tell him he was talking out of his rear.

If it was someone I didn't know so well I'd handle it differently. No point upsetting someone over it.

But I think its important enough to tackle somehow.

Next thing he'll be saying the techniques of Aikido are fixed and that aikido involves great big circles!!!


#127428 - 03/04/04 09:04 AM Re: what would you do?
csinca Offline
former moderator

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 672
Loc: Southern California
Sensei Lou,

I agree with Cato's assessment that you aren't likely to change the guys mind. But I would probably go on record as disagreeing, but in a nice way. It could be enough to cause the guy to question his info and learn a bit more.

The question that struck me is; how did the third guy react. Is the third guy saying to himself, "I'm surprised Sensei Lou let him get away with saying that, maybe he doesn't know any better..." Or are you thinking the same thing about him?


#127429 - 03/04/04 11:32 AM Re: what would you do?
Joe Jutsu Offline

Registered: 04/09/03
Posts: 575
I don't know how I'd handle the Judo/Jujutsu thing. If it wasn't with a high grade martial artist, I'd definitely add my two cents, but in the situation that you describe I don't think the person would really value my opinion.

And as for the other situation, if someone only a handful of years older than me told me that he studied directly under O Sensei I would be forced to immediately call "bullshit" on him. Man people can be losers!


#127430 - 03/04/04 11:52 AM Re: what would you do?
senseilou Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2082
Loc: Glendale, Az.
Chris you know me well enough by now to know I can't keep my big mouth shut.I asked the other person his thoughts on the matter and he agreed with his friend. So as politically right as I could be, I told them they were indeed WRONG! And shouldn't be making statements about an art that they obviously haven't study or for that matter seen. I am very big on being responsible for what you say. For the very reason Chris points out, I don't want people to think I am agreeing with these "lugheads". That would make me just as guilty. The same two said that a Aikido Sensei in town was one of the best Jujutsu-ists in the country. When I told them he wasn't Jujutsu but a hybrid Aikido-ist they told me it was all the same. I just can't see letting people say what they want. I know they didn't change their minds, or probably think I am an arrogant ass(I really am I guess)but at least they were told the differences between what they precieve and what is real. Funny thing was these were statements from students of another art, who claim to be Chineese but were really Hawaiian.(I didn't touch that one). But I think you can see the harm. Here is a school being run telling people they are a Chineese style when in fact 2 Hawaiians created it here in the Mainland. So how many students do you think are walking around telling people they are studying a Chineese art. The harm is this. There are people who don't know better, and believe this nonsense. What if one of their students wanted to study Jujutsu too, and the Sensei says "well it has no throws in it, Judo has the throws. Then the student doesn't persue his intrest based on a Sensei's mis-information. You can't correct the world, but I think we need to stand responsible to educate even if they won't listen. Cato is right though, I try to limit my associations to people who are serious students. Bottom line of all this, the dinner was a big mistake, but one of my Sensei asked(told) me to go with him. I think he learned a lesson to. It doesn't matter if its right or wrong, good information or bad, if you believe it, your not going to change it.

#127431 - 03/04/04 05:03 PM Re: what would you do?
Jamoni Offline

Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 1514
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
I think the best thing is to go on record as to what you believe to be true (POLITELY, Lou, politely.) And then DROP IT. You can't change their minds, but you can give them food for thought when they discover they are wrong.


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