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#127372 - 03/15/04 11:56 AM Re: Sparring with other MA's
Anonymous
Unregistered


Tell you want I'll post another topic asking if anyone was offended or if they think you are making a big thing out of nothing [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

Maybe this is one of your feministic qualities. (refering to your post females)

[This message has been edited by Shotokan (edited 03-15-2004).]

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#127373 - 03/15/04 11:57 AM Re: Sparring with other MA's
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Raul Perez:
The tip of the stick hurt like hell [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]
I moved in and the middle of the stick hurt like hell [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]
I moved in farther and his elbow hurt like hell [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

Oh wait was I supposed to put my hands up or something? You have to help me out with these things... I am, after all, an idiot [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/tongue.gif[/IMG]

Raul
[/QUOTE]

You people are being difficult for the fun of it [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG] If I ever had to teach students like you I'd end up screaming...

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#127374 - 03/15/04 12:11 PM Re: Sparring with other MA's
senseilou Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2082
Loc: Glendale, Az.
Wadowoman......Just by your posts I wouldn't just lump you into any category. You seem to have great knowledge and can see through the screen set up by beginners or people who just don't know or understand what they are talking about. I have trained alot of years in Karate as well(Shito Ryu)and have trained with some great Masters and other great students. I have the utmost for respect for all Arts especially the ones I started with(Aikido and Karate). I know there are more good people out there in any art, then the 'bad apples' who claim this and that. Even though Cato and I are bitter enemies(just kidding)I respect him, because he has put in his time. What just drives me nuts are people who 'talk out of their hat'(and other orafices)and spread bad information. They are not responsible for what they say. If someone doesn't shoot them down then their garbage is spread. You never know when someone impressionable may listen to the bad advise.I think alot of times beginners or even intermediate students just like to see their name or their thoughts in print. I would have thought they would have gotten that out of their system with all the paers they wrote in high school(and still may be doing so) or in college.I have no problem with stupid questions, its the stupid statements that drive me nuts. Sometimes I think people do this just to rock the boat. I also realize we have key board warriors who never could last through a class if they had too, especially a hard style karate class. Those of us who have had to do basics for 2 hours and walk accross the dojo floor and Kata for three, can spot the ones who just don't know what they are talking about. And yes Shotokan you do upset me, because you don't know what you are talking about. You may think you do, and really thats the biggest problem. Anyone who thinks that Martial Arts is just some simple bunch of tricks that anyone can do doesn't say much about themselves. If you think all it takes is common sense, then you don't have any. I can't believe your Sensei would approve of your thoughts, and the bad information you spread. If you want to join the big leagues, and talk about the arts then go study them. You may be a fine Shotkan practioner, though if all you learned was common sense, a few tricks and the 45' angle I doubt it. But if you haven't studied other arts , or know HOW they work or what makes them work, keep your opinion to yourself, or take the plunge, get out of your dojo, quit watching Stephen Segals movies and TRAIN!

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#127375 - 03/15/04 12:17 PM Re: Sparring with other MA's
senseilou Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2082
Loc: Glendale, Az.
P.S. the fact that you teach is even scarier. Number 2, if you can't accept femine views you not only don't belong here, you don't belong in the dojo. Grow up and act like you have trained even if you haven't. The comment to Wadowoman(Sharon) is offensive to me, as I am a big proponent of females in the arts, one big reason is they have more class, and more polite than 'macho boneheads' like you. I think you need to find another post to aggrevate.!

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#127376 - 03/15/04 03:18 PM Re: Sparring with other MA's
csinca Offline
former moderator

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 672
Loc: Southern California
Shotokan,

"Do you know why it's general, because physics is general. It is the the law of the universe." Seems like Physics isn't much stronger than your Aikido..."

Physics is pretty darn specific. You may not be but physics is.

If you multiply Force and Distance you will have a number reperesenting Work. Divide that number by the time in which that Force is applied over that Distance and you will have Power.

Having done all that, all you've really accomplished is figuring out how much work I have to do to get my foot from point A to point B at a given acceleration. At the moment of impact, what really matters is how much mass my foot has and how fast it is going. It mattters not how far it travelled to reach that velocity.

You may be thinking that velocity is acceleration * time and that the more time I have to accelerate my foot the faster it will be travelling at impact.

I don't think anyone would doubt that a jambed kick is less powerful than a ranged kick. But your comment was that inside kicking distance, "close to the thigh you are safe". I strongly disagree with that statement.

Chris

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#127377 - 03/15/04 07:02 PM Re: Sparring with other MA's
Anonymous
Unregistered


Yes, Chris you are safe from the kick and nothing more (is that what you strongly disagree about)...I am fully aware of the clinch and other close quarter stuff (punches, grabes etc)...but at that moment you are at the outside of the opponents leg and he is standing on one foot great opportunity to off-balance him.... seize the moment huh?

Closing the distance is the best way to make strikes ineffective or reduce their effect. That's the same philosophy the Gracies use. Why do boxers go into the clinch?

F*D=Work If you can decrease the D in the formula by closing the distance you will reduce the amount of W the stick does to you.

[QUOTE] And yes Shotokan you do upset me, because you don't know what you are talking about. [/QUOTE]

Sensi Lou, I know you are disciplined in many arts...I remember you said you study 4 forms of Ju Jitsu, Aikido, Aiki Jitsu, and now Shito Ryu...I didn't mean to offend anyone...I was just sharing my 2 cents.

I see my advice isn't having the effect on you that I wished.

I'm sure you Aikidokas have your ideas on how to deal with strikers, but it wouldn't hurt to look a it from a different angle from a different perspective and see if it can benefit you [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG] I am always willing to listen to other peoples advice even if it is unpopular.

Fine. I'll stop sharing it.

Jumping to conclusions about my veiws of women eh! Learn how to take things lightly it's good for you health.

Good luck and good bye!!!
Enjoy your discussion.


Everyone is at liberty to ignore and disagree, but...

Geeze, why do some people on these boards have an attitude when they disagree with someone when they say something unpopular rather than absording any goodness from it...I guess some people just know everthing.

I wish I could understand how I disrespected you Sensi Lou by sharing my two cents. You are the one who responded with the trashing and discrediting of my character.

[This message has been edited by Shotokan (edited 03-15-2004).]

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#127378 - 03/16/04 01:26 AM Re: Sparring with other MA's
Joe Jutsu Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/09/03
Posts: 575
Shotokan-

Admitedly I have not followed all of your threads, but for what it's worth you have NOT come across at least in the aikido forum as disrespectful... It seems as if others might harbor other discrepencies with you, but I do respect and encourage your opinions.

As to the lineages of certain arts, I understand the value but at this point outside of aikido I could care less... I am more concerned with how they move and I do appreciate your perspective, but do not have the background to comment one way or the other so let's suffice to say that your comments, whether positively or negatively received (by the majority), are informative to others...

Joe

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#127379 - 03/16/04 01:34 AM Re: Sparring with other MA's
Joe Jutsu Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/09/03
Posts: 575
In adendum to my last post..

I'd like this thread to get a little back on topic...

Aikidoka out there (like the three of us), do you think it's a positive or negative experience to spar with other MA's....

And to other MA's... (especially MMA's)

Do you find any merit in sparring with aikidoka (or I guess ju jutsuka along the same lines)... And if you get caught in a joint lock do you for pride or other reasons fight it to the point of a break, or do you look at stand-up wrist locks as a point for a tapout (which at my level I think my sparring "friends" need to accept over screaming bloody murder).

Joe

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#127380 - 03/16/04 02:00 AM Re: Sparring with other MA's
Anonymous
Unregistered


As well as karate I have a (very) limited knowledge of jujitsu. By that I mean I can do simple locks. I can still only throw a cooperating partner but have not mastered throwing a resisting one (yet).

I think sparrring with people from other disciplines is a great experience. At a self defence class a while ago, three of us, me and two large experienced men had a lot of trouble restraining a guy who had done a lot of aikido because his movement was fluid and continuous.

One on one it is difficult to strike him, again because he moves so well.

It was a good experience.

And no, I am not proud or stupid enough to keep fighting once a good lock is on (makes me mad when people do this).
Sharon

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#127381 - 03/16/04 09:49 AM Re: Sparring with other MA's
csinca Offline
former moderator

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 672
Loc: Southern California
Joe,

As I've mentioned previously on this thread, I do spar with MAs from other styles. I cross train in Krav Maga and spar regularly with some Wado-Ryu guys. I also know people in three different BJJ groups that I occassionally will "roll" with. I've also driven to visit Sensei Lou a couple times and I'm hoping to do so again soon. I find tremendous value in working with folks from other styles and with different perspectives. I pick up what works for me and discard what doesn't. What works for me now is very different than what I was doin two years ago, and I hope to be very different in another two years.

It's fun to put on the gloves and just "go at it" for awhile and you will get a new perspective on how quickly technique can go out the window. But I would offer some advice that I just recently received from Sensei Lou, use the sparring in a focused manner. Pick the one thing that you really want to work on and make sure you are working that one thing. Don't get caught up in the energy and excitement but focus on training. If you want to train yourself to be relaxed, then don't worry about hitting the opther guy or even getting any locks initially, have them come at you 50% and just move. If you want to work locks, have them start out at 50% and see what positions you can put yourself in to get the locks, then work the lock, then work the speed.

When I have consciously done this I have learned a tremendous amount. Most important to me was when I stay within my training, things actually work out fairly well for me.

Shotokan, In this same vein, I really would be open to working out with you if you ever find yourself in Southern California. We don't have to agree on everything but if you show me something that works and fits in with what I am doing, I can assure you I will incorporate it. I'll also listen if you can show why some of the things I'm doing won't work. On a good day I might even show you something worthwhile.

Chris

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