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#127362 - 03/15/04 01:15 AM Re: Sparring with other MA's
senseilou Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2082
Loc: Glendale, Az.
I just don't understand how you can make statements about Aikido when you don't train in it or have trained in in it. You can't understand the principles of Aikido without practicing the art. I will only address one part of your statement and that is the 45' angle. Aikido is mainly based on the 90' not the 45' so if Aikido is based on the 90'and you suggest the 45' how is Aikido suppose to work on the 45'? Having trained in Karate prior to my Aikido training, one of the hardest lessons I had to deal with was getting off the 45' and working the 90'. Upon leaving Aikido and going back to Karate, again it was a major adjustment. Once you learn how to adjust its easier, but unless you practice at the 90' and then at the 45' its not fair to suggest that something does work unless you have made it so.I takes years to learn how to move effectively in Aikido with Timing-Space and angles in a fluid movement. to suggest that Aikido will work on the 45' because your does, doesn't mean Aikido works that way. I suggest you train in the art, before you make general comments about it. Aikido is pinciple driven, and you can't understand these unless you are on the mat and feel the body move. Not every art fits into its little space. There is much more to Aikido and unless you practice it, you really don't understand HOW it works. It would be like saying Shotokan stances aren't very mobile. Its not fair to judge this unless you work your techniques from that stance and compare it to your own. Same is true here.

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#127363 - 03/15/04 03:28 AM Re: Sparring with other MA's
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by senseilou:
I just don't understand how you can make statements about Aikido when you don't train in it or have trained in in it. You can't understand the principles of Aikido without practicing the art. I will only address one part of your statement and that is the 45' angle. Aikido is mainly based on the 90' not the 45' so if Aikido is based on the 90'and you suggest the 45' how is Aikido suppose to work on the 45'? Having trained in Karate prior to my Aikido training, one of the hardest lessons I had to deal with was getting off the 45' and working the 90'. Upon leaving Aikido and going back to Karate, again it was a major adjustment. Once you learn how to adjust its easier, but unless you practice at the 90' and then at the 45' its not fair to suggest that something does work unless you have made it so.I takes years to learn how to move effectively in Aikido with Timing-Space and angles in a fluid movement. to suggest that Aikido will work on the 45' because your does, doesn't mean Aikido works that way. I suggest you train in the art, before you make general comments about it. Aikido is pinciple driven, and you can't understand these unless you are on the mat and feel the body move. Not every art fits into its little space. There is much more to Aikido and unless you practice it, you really don't understand HOW it works. It would be like saying Shotokan stances aren't very mobile. Its not fair to judge this unless you work your techniques from that stance and compare it to your own. Same is true here.[/QUOTE]

Your quite the stud man who knows it all eh!

Kiddin

I said clearly in my post that I do not know Aikido. I am no one to give advice on Aikido. I do however have common sense [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

I train in a striking art and during the course of my training I have come to realize that strikes can be easily made ineffective...same as grappling...using some tricks that are nothing more than common sense.

[QUOTE] I suggest you train in the art, before you make general comments about it [/QUOTE]

::Clears throat:: Now when did I make comments about Aikido?

I don't care about how Aikido works...any idiot can follow the advice I gave and pull it off against a trained striker...It doesn't matter what art you train it...it doesn't matter if you train at all, you can be a boxer or you can be granma sitting at home knitting a hat.

Do you know why it's general, because physics is general. It is the the law of the universe.

If Aikido cannot work at 45 degrees then screw that line and read the others [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

Common Sense

My 2 cents. What's the exchange rate?

[This message has been edited by Shotokan (edited 03-15-2004).]

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#127364 - 03/15/04 09:06 AM Re: Sparring with other MA's
csinca Offline
former moderator

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 672
Loc: Southern California
Shotokan,

The art of Aikido (and jsut about any other I've run across) is more than just " a few simple tricks" that "any idiot can follow". Though I've got to say, if you ever end up in Southern California I'd like to see some of these tricks. I'm very curious about other perspectives and if you have found the way to complete self defense through a few simple tricks, I could free up a lot of time for something other than old fashioned hard training!

If we discard your 45' advice, what's to say any of your other advice is worth keeping?

"e.g Kicks are only a treat if the tip of the leg (foot) is close to you...if you close the distance so that you are past the foot and close to the thigh...you are safe"

At that range you are certainly not safe, you are in a clinch where I can think of several ways the feet can still cause you problems plus you've entered in knee, elbow and headbutt range. I'd think we may want to look a bit further at this helpful tip.

Chris

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#127365 - 03/15/04 09:37 AM Re: Sparring with other MA's
Raul Perez Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 2805
Loc: Lake Ronkonkoma, NY, USA
Originally Posted By Shotokan:

"I said clearly in my post that I do not know Aikido. I am no one to give advice on Aikido. I do however have common sense [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]"

Debatable.

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#127366 - 03/15/04 10:51 AM Re: Sparring with other MA's
Joe Jutsu Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/09/03
Posts: 575
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Shotokan:
I think Aikido can defend againt striking. [/QUOTE]

I don't think anyone said anything to the contrary...

"Steping back or in the direction of a kick or punch while it is landing will also make the striking ineffective."

Sounds like your hinting at the concept of ma ai, or harmonious distance.

Joe

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#127367 - 03/15/04 11:28 AM Re: Sparring with other MA's
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Raul Perez:
Originally Posted By Shotokan:

"I said clearly in my post that I do not know Aikido. I am no one to give advice on Aikido. I do however have common sense [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]"

Debatable.
[/QUOTE]

Omg not again!!!


If an Aikidoka is gonna beat someone from another style who is the best person to consult? Isn't it from someone of the style that he is trying to beat?

[QUOTE] Sounds like your hinting at the concept of ma ai, or harmonious distance. [/QUOTE]

Right. Move in harmony with the attack.

Take this as a simple experiement. Let someone take a stick and wack you on the side of you head with the tip of the stick. Does it hurt? Yes. LAMO...Raul tell me about it afterwards [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

Now, let the swing at you again only this time step inwards, to close range, so that the tip of the stick is past you. You are safe from being hit by the stick because the wedge is on the end wish is out of your range.

From that close distance you are safer because strikes cannot develop as much power at close range due to less distance in the formula (force * distance).

Not of this should be seen as the ultimate answer [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG] Chris...

I'll stop here...over doing it huh [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

[This message has been edited by Shotokan (edited 03-15-2004).]

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#127368 - 03/15/04 11:38 AM Re: Sparring with other MA's
Anonymous
Unregistered


Shotoakan
Are you deliberately going out of your way to upset the whole forum or have you posted here because you have run out of people to upset on MA Talk and Kata?

Senseilou, I hope you don't think all karatekas are like this.
Sharon

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#127369 - 03/15/04 11:44 AM Re: Sparring with other MA's
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by wadowoman:
Shotoakan
Are you deliberately going out of your way to upset the whole forum or have you posted here because you have run out of people to upset on MA Talk and Kata?

Senseilou, I hope you don't think all karatekas are like this.
Sharon
[/QUOTE]

I only seem to be upseting Senseilou.

I don't see what I have done to upset anyone. Can someone point that out for me? Don't post much in Kata.

Thanks Wadowoman for the advice [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]
Is that your name "Sharon"

Some how you have developed a stereotype of me...despite not knowing much about me.

How long have you been training?

[This message has been edited by Shotokan (edited 03-15-2004).]

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#127370 - 03/15/04 11:54 AM Re: Sparring with other MA's
Anonymous
Unregistered


Yes my name is Sharon. I have been training around 10 years but in this particular discusion it would not matter if it were only 10 minutes.

I wasn't giving advice, I was asking a question.

As for not posting on kata, it was only a couple of days ago that you entitled your thread "for those idiots......" thus insulting half the membership.

Oh, and the stereo type thing - not really, I speak as I find. You may not realise this because I am usually more polite about it than you usually are.
Sharon (my name)

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#127371 - 03/15/04 11:56 AM Re: Sparring with other MA's
Raul Perez Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 2805
Loc: Lake Ronkonkoma, NY, USA
The tip of the stick hurt like hell [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]
I moved in and the middle of the stick hurt like hell [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]
I moved in farther and his elbow hurt like hell [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

Oh wait was I supposed to put my hands up or something? You have to help me out with these things... I am, after all, an idiot [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/tongue.gif[/IMG]

Raul

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