FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 21 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
BUJU, Pilsungkarate, ALF, old1, Leonar
22928 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Ronin1966 3
futsaowingchun 2
ergees 2
GojuRyuboy13 2
AndyLA 1
October
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
New Topics
I spy kata bunkai..
by GojuRyuboy13
Yesterday at 08:28 AM
Judo 2014 World Championships Juniors: The Gallery
by ergees
10/25/14 04:53 PM
The Classic Pak Sao drill
by futsaowingchun
10/20/14 10:32 AM
wing chun kicks and knees
by futsaowingchun
10/09/14 12:55 AM
2014 European Championships Juniors: the Gallery
by ergees
10/05/14 10:56 AM
Living a full life violence free...
by GojuRyuboy13
09/25/14 08:50 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Bartfast
08/05/14 04:18 PM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/30/13 07:41 AM
Leo's Judo Journal
by Leo_E_49
01/24/12 02:58 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by
05/13/07 08:02 AM
Recent Posts
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
Yesterday at 10:01 PM
I spy kata bunkai..
by GojuRyuboy13
Yesterday at 08:28 AM
Judo 2014 World Championships Juniors: The Gallery
by ergees
10/25/14 04:53 PM
Living a full life violence free...
by GojuRyuboy13
10/22/14 07:20 AM
The Classic Pak Sao drill
by futsaowingchun
10/20/14 10:32 AM
Leo's Judo Journal
by swordy
10/11/14 09:21 AM
wing chun kicks and knees
by futsaowingchun
10/09/14 12:55 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Ronin1966
10/08/14 09:22 PM
2014 European Championships Juniors: the Gallery
by ergees
10/05/14 10:56 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by AndyLA
10/04/14 10:20 AM
Forum Stats
22928 Members
36 Forums
35584 Topics
432513 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 >
Topic Options
#127352 - 02/09/04 10:48 AM Sparring with other MA's
Joe Jutsu Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/09/03
Posts: 575
Hello everyone.

This is for all you aikidoka out there. Do you ever spar with people from other martial arts? Have you found sparring to be beneficial or detrimental to your training?

I have a few friends in martial arts, and I used to play around with them a bit. But over the weekend, a friend of mine who studies JKD, Wing Chun, and Hsing I sort of started slappin' around at me, playfully of course, trying to get me to square off with him. Well, we had drank a few beers so I took the bait. He got a few light touches on me, and was telling me how open I was, then through another punch that I (surprisingly) blended with and set up a beautiful kotegaeishi. But my friend started freaking out, so I pulled the technique at the point of the blow. I didn't want to hurt him, and he was fighting it like hell!

Anyway, in adendum to my previous question, are aikido techniques perhaps too dangerous to use in a sparring situation? I think it's crappy that my friend is able to use everything in his repatoire when sparring with me, but when I can take advantage of what I know to do, well, I didn't.

So I maybe done with sparring, but I'd love to hear other people's opinions on the matter.

Thanks,

Joe

Top
#127353 - 02/12/04 12:32 AM Re: Sparring with other MA's
senseilou Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2082
Loc: Glendale, Az.
well Joe this is an age old debate that I don't think will ever have an answer. To me its the setting in which you are doing your technique. By this I mean what is allowed. Most Strikers do not think Aiki will work in a fight. Aiki practioners feel they can defend against strikers. In a setting of 'anything goes' this is what is probably going to happen. The Aikidoka will be hit, and the Karateka will probably have a sprain or dislocation of some joint. Even at sparring speed(which we go anywhere from 25-50%)Aiki techniques can be dangerous. However remember too, that in a sparring situation that they are not going as fast as possible or with as much power as possible. Same with Aiki, techniques are not done at full speed because of risk of injury. My first venture to spar with a Karateka and only use Aikido was a no win situation. He resisted my techniques, so the harder I had to do it, the harder he punched, which led to a wrist injury for him. Also Karateka do not fall as well so a throw can be dangerous too. My Karate Sensei had me face eveyone in the class and all I could use was my Jujutsu arts, no striking. I took as much as I gave. He then told me I could strike and kick and use my Aiki and Jujutsu. This was where I took charge, as my strikes kept them off balanced and they didn't know when I would use my joint locking arts. This kept them at bay and mainly frustrated. This experiment that my Sensei did taught me the best way to train is strike and lock. I then added ground work which made things a bit more difficult to handle. My only comment about this, that is a bit negative is this. In Aikido you are mainly defensive, which allows the attack to keep coming. So sometimes a good offense is needed as well. A good offense is a great defense, so sometimes you need to overwhelm them and most Aiki styles don't give you that opportunity. Also, most Aikidoka don't train in the repetitious form of striking like that of a Karateka, so you don't face the Karate kind of striking.This can be a bit of a challenge unless you practice with a Karateka. Finally I don't think Aiki's intent is to spar with a Karateka. Not saying it can't be done, but doing so goes against the tenents of Aiki. remember that sparring is a tool, and is native to the Karate Arts. Jiyuwaza and Randori are native to Aiki arts and those are their sparring tools. So you can see the purpose of the 2 were not inteneded to face each other. Karate philosopy is to fight fire with a volcano. Aiki's philosphy is to fight fire with water, so its hard to have a place where 2 can use their arts against one another.

Top
#127354 - 02/12/04 05:15 AM Re: Sparring with other MA's
dazzler2 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 148
Loc: england
Interesting reply Lou. I agree very much with it.

Issue highlighted here is that Aikidoka tend to become blinkered and try just to use the somewhat static forms or techniques practiced in the dojo.

I'll suggest again that the techniques are just tools to develop tenkan and irimi or ying and yang.

Assuming one allows the opponent to start, having evaded the initial attack it is now time to go on the offensive. This does not limit one to the recognised techniques of Aikido...Any entering work and atemi is fine.

As Lou says..."A good offense is a great defense"

Cheers

D

Top
#127355 - 02/19/04 10:11 AM Re: Sparring with other MA's
Cato Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 1636
A good response Lou, and I can only agree with you. The usefullness of sparring with exponents of other arts is quite a debatable point, and I would guess it all depends on what you hope to achieve from it as to how much use it will be.

Training is training, and percursive arts will always have the advantage in sparring because they lend themselves to it better than aikido does. Aikido wasn't designed with sparring in mind and most of the fighting tools of the aikidoka will be blunted by the duty of care toward your sparring partner. It is easier to control the power a punch (especially if you train that way regularly) than it is to apply sankyo gently. I think in general the aikidoka is better advised not to spar with other stylists, mainly because the other stylists will very likely be much better at it.

Budo

Top
#127356 - 03/02/04 01:28 PM Re: Sparring with other MA's
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
Joe, One time on vacation in St. Thomas I found this remote spot on a beach to work out. I was doing Kata when this guy ran buy me in a Gi, I purposely found the most romote spot possible because I didn't want to attract any attention (shy). We were both black belt and he had a black Gi instead of white. He ran by me again and turned around and we introduced ourselve and commented on how wierd it was that two MA people met this way. Anyway it was early in the morning and we didn't finish showing each other our styles until after lunch. We even sparred for about twenty minutes. He was an Aikido instructor and I was Tang So Doo instructor, my point is that we/I had one of the best MA expierences in my life. I alway love to spare/learn anything possible from other styles. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

Bonzai

Top
#127357 - 03/03/04 09:07 AM Re: Sparring with other MA's
csinca Offline
former moderator

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 672
Loc: Southern California
If you can find someone from another style that is interested in the possibility of learning something new and sharing concepts, sparring with them can be a great tool. If however the two of you are going to just "go at it" then I agree with Cato's last post, the Karate guy is probably going to have much more fun.

In my own case, I've found guys that will show what they are doing and why. When I find entrances and controls that work, I'm happy to show tehm how I'm getting in on them. I like the dynamic and unpredictable atmosphere of putting on the gloves and working with different people of different sizes and fighting styles.

I initially found it difficult to control distances and initiative when punches, kicks, combinations and feints were used by skilled fighters. I've been very happy with the changes in my aikido over the last year since I've incorporated 2-4 sparring sessions a month.

now I'm looking to change the nature of my sparring to a more controlled activity rather than a free-for-all.

I guess it comes down to " IF you find value or fun in it, go for it. If you don't find value or fun in it, don't waste your time"

Chris

Top
#127358 - 03/03/04 08:02 PM Re: Sparring with other MA's
Joe Jutsu Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/09/03
Posts: 575
Thanks for the replies guys.

Perhaps I am not at the point in my training where I need to be sparring, or perhaps I need to find a different partner, one not so keen on showing me what "doesn't work."

Joe

Top
#127359 - 03/04/04 07:03 AM Re: Sparring with other MA's
Cato Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 1636
Perhaps there is no requirement to ever reach a point in your training when you need to spar with other stylists, Joe. It might be worth persevering with your over keen training partner and telling him/her that they're not helping your training as much as they could be.

It might just be that they think they're doing the right thing, or they could just have difficulty accepting a technique, in effect "losing" the fight, when you apply it. Either way, by sticking with them your improving your technique (difficult uke's are buggers to work with, but they improve you quicker than easy uke's do) and you might just help them as well. Remember, there's more to training than fighting.

Budo

Top
#127360 - 03/04/04 11:23 AM Re: Sparring with other MA's
Joe Jutsu Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/09/03
Posts: 575
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Cato:
Perhaps there is no requirement to ever reach a point in your training when you need to spar with other stylists, Joe. It might be worth persevering with your over keen training partner and telling him/her that they're not helping your training as much as they could be.

It might just be that they think they're doing the right thing, or they could just have difficulty accepting a technique, in effect "losing" the fight, when you apply it. Either way, by sticking with them your improving your technique (difficult uke's are buggers to work with, but they improve you quicker than easy uke's do) and you might just help them as well. Remember, there's more to training than fighting.

Budo
[/QUOTE]

True true, good points Cato. There is much more to training than fighting, in fact, heres to not fighting! (Cheers!) As for tough ukes, well I can be a bugger of an uke as well if I'm asked to, and in the confines of the dojo I thank people when the jam up my technique. I don't think anyone could argue against honesty vs. delusion in ones training. And I wasn't really fighting with my kung fu friend at all, it's all friendly. The types of attacks that he throws are very different than what I'm used to, really flowing with lots of feints and stuff. If and when I get into one of these sparring games with him (he likes to initiate them), I think I'll just point out that when he tells me to stop because he has weak wrists, I'll point out that that is analogous to tapping out.

Play nice,

Joe

Top
#127361 - 03/14/04 10:58 AM Re: Sparring with other MA's
Anonymous
Unregistered


I think Aikido can defend againt striking.

I don't do Aikido..my point in saying that is you don't have to know Aikido to defend against striking. After training in a striking art like Shotokan for a number of years, it comes to you just like that and it's actually all common sense.

If you understand how distancing and timing work to making striking effective...you can control them to make striking ineffective.

IMPORTANT:
Angle of attack (45 degrees or more)
Control
Off-balancing (strikes become ineffective)
Position (being close and way (45 or more degrees from the front of the opponent)

Strike can be made ineffective with distancing and footwork.

e.g Kicks are only a treat if the tip of the leg (foot) is close to you...if you close the distance so that you are past the foot and close to the thigh...you are safe

Same for the punch...get past the fist and you are safe for the moment...

Steping back or in the direction of a kick or punch while it is landing will also make the striking ineffective.

My 2 cents...

[This message has been edited by Shotokan (edited 03-14-2004).]

Top
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 >


Moderator:  Ames, Cord, MattJ, Reiki 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Self Defense
Offering stun guns, pepper spray, tasers and other self defense products not available in stores.

Pepper Spray
Online distributor of self defense supplies like videos, stun guns, Tasers and more.

Spy Cameras
Surveillance, Hidden Cameras, Nanny Cams, Digital Recorders, Spy Equipment, Pocket DVR's and more

Stun Gun
Wholesale Directlhy to the Public! Stun gun and Taser Guns and personal protection products. Keep your loved ones at home safe!

 

Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga