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#127011 - 10/09/03 10:56 PM Introductions
Joe Jutsu Offline

Registered: 04/09/03
Posts: 575
Hello everybody. It occurred to me that I know very little about the people who regularly post on this board. I'm not looking for name and address and bank account number or anything... [IMG][/IMG] I was just wondering what martial arts you study i.e. what style of aikido. Were you limited to maybe one style in your area, or did you have choices? Why have you stayed in or left aikido? What rank/how long have you been practicing aikido or your preferred martial art. I'll start...

Hi. My name is Joe, and I'm a martial artist (the rest of the group says, 'hi Joe!') I've been studying aikido for a little over two years, and it's the only martial art I've ever taken. I'm testing for sankyu in about two weeks, but I'm not very worried about it because I've been told that I've been ready for awhile, but testing only comes up about two or three times a year, less if you are testing for dan rankings. The style I study is shin shin toitsu aikido, or ki society for short. It is the only style in my town, but there are others within about a half an hour drive away. I feel lucky to be invovled in a very strong dojo. My head sensei, though a hard ass, is a really good teacher, as evident when watching some of his senior students. We are also very lucky to have our national cheif instructor Kashiwaya sensei come two the area at least two times a year, but often more. I started aikido because I wanted to be better able to defend myself. What I found were many techniques that take years to master, but I found my increased awareness and confidence a major help right away. After a couple of years, I find myself caring less about the martial side, though first and foremost I train martially. I've just become sort of more patient you could say. The techniques will come in time, and I have a few tried and true techniques to fall back on [IMG][/IMG] . My favorite part of aikido now is ukemi. My falling skills have improved tremendously over the past several months, which I believe to be the most practical self defense aspect taught in aikido, and I'm working hard to improve my striking ability as well.

Well, not that anyone necessarily cared, but that's my experience in a nutshell. I hope to read about your experience, which I believe will help fascilitate further discussion on aikido, the martial arts, and to some extent, life in general.


[This message has been edited by Joe Jutsu (edited 10-09-2003).]

#127012 - 10/10/03 01:54 AM Re: Introductions
senseilou Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2082
Loc: Glendale, Az.
To begin with I don't like to talk about myself, so I will mainly keep it to my Sensei through the years. I have trained 30+ years in various styles. Some that most people won't even know. My Aiki training started with my son, after our Kempo dojo went belly up. We studied the art for almost 10 years, and the head Sensei was Satome Sensei in Washington, and Ikeda Sensei in Colorado. I was neither a big fan of either, as they were not self-defense oriented enough for me. One of my favorites was Doran Sensei, but my most favorite, who is no longer with us was Toyada Sensei of Chicago. He adopted us, and shared his version of Aiki with us. We left Aikido and studied Aiki-Jujutsu under Obata Sensei and Hakko-Ryu Aiki-Jujutsu which a bit more combat minded. I have a Shodan in both Aikido and Aiki-Jujutsu, but my experience is in Jujutsu, and Okinawan Te. It is here that I have trained with some of the best Masters in the world, and my Jujutsu training has been guided by people like Professor Wally Jay, Soke Harris Warren, Soke Frank Sanchez, Olohe Kaihewalu, and Professor Moses Powell. In the past 10 years I have tried to study as many different styles of Jujutsu as possible. To date I have have studied:
Goshin Budo Jujutsu-Japaneese
Torite Ryu Jutsu-Okinawan
Sanuces Ryu-Moses Powells Art
V-Arnis Jitsu-Polynesian
San Jitsu, which I am currently studying and am the representative of this art in Arizona, California and Colorado. I am also studying Lua under Olohe Solomon Kaihewalu, which is the native art of Hawaii, and am a member of that organization as well. Finally, I am a member of the Martial Arts Collective society and am a representative here in Az. Hanshi Bruce Juchnik is my Sensei here of Kosho Ryu Kempo. Today I am very involved in the arts of Hawaii, and Guam, and have been working on my own art of Shizen Ryu(natural, spontaneous)Jujutsu based on all the natural movements I have learned in all my training. I am a Shihan/Renshi in Jujutsu, and Okinawan Te but only am a Sandan in San Jitsu. Most of my time is spent traveling attending seminars and of late been teaching at them as well. My main goal is to try and preserve the natural teachings of the arts, and get some recognition to the Hawaiian Martial Arts which is not as popular, as should be based on the great Masters of Hawaii.

#127013 - 10/10/03 03:52 AM Re: Introductions
kempo_jujitsu Offline

Registered: 06/15/03
Posts: 1914
Loc: illinois, usa
hi, my name is brad.
i dont study aikido.
i am pretty much into the same vein as senseilou...he and i agree very much.
the style i have studied the most (which isnt all that much really) is called gokei-ryu kempo jujutsu. which is an eclectic system, somewhat likened to such arts as krav maga, vee arnis jutsu, jkd...there are no kata in this system, yet the kempo is okinawan in origin, it is primarily a jujutsu system, you start with basic kempo strikes and such, then start adding joint locks throws chokes and such from jujutsu.
the kempo part of it comes from taika seiyu oyata, the jujutsu is not a certain style, i guess you could call it jujutsu concepts (sorry jkd guys)
..i am hoping to start at a new dojo soon, the sensei there was a classmate of my previous instructor, but teaches a different style called american kempo jujutsu which by most accounts is basically the same thing...but he does teach a few kata but interestingly...not until after shodan...because kata are not NECESSARY...but are great to study once you can defend yourself. my instructor's teacher studied with taika seiyu oyata, and rod sacharnoski. as well as many others over the world.
currently i am training in kyusho jutsu (pressure point fighting) with a 5th dan member of Dillman Karate International. who also was a classmate of the above mentioned sensei(all my teachers come from the same sensei among others)....cato would surely call it a mixed martial art...and i guess it is lol...we do everything from kempo, jujutsu, kyusho, to philipino martial arts and shootfighting, along with other forms of grappling. it is self defense oriented and has no trophies or things of this nature...nor is it very "spiritual" but it works! [IMG][/IMG]
soon i also plan on starting small circle jujutsu, but i may be moving sometime in the future to az. in which case i will almost definately be training with senseilou.
my area is great for kyusho study....there is my instructor, and three high ranking and even higher skilled grandmasters all within a few hours drive....some of the very best.
but there is also a great one in phoenix ever met or trained with bill burch sensei lou?
anyway....have a nice day.

[This message has been edited by kempo_jujitsu (edited 10-10-2003).]

#127014 - 10/10/03 12:57 PM Re: Introductions
senseilou Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2082
Loc: Glendale, Az.
Well here goes my credibility. I know of Bill Burch Sensei and have trained at his dojo once with him and Dillman Sensei. I am sorry to say I am not a fan of Dillman Sensei, one in part of our differing opinion about who is entitled to learn pressure pointing and two our personalities clashed. So I don't attend those any more and choose to get my pressure point information from a Chineese Doctor/martial artisit who explains the art quite differently. I know of people who train with Burch Sensei and they all agree as to his talent and speak highly of him as a Sensei. I personally have a problem when I go to a seminar and see white belts, blue belts, yellow belts learning how to use pressure points,instead of concentrating on their basics. One can teach the pressure points within the context of training without having these young students spending time trying to learn something that up until the past 10 years was reserved for upper degrees of Black Belt.Dillman Sensei said I didn't want to tell my students the secrets of pressure points, and was hiding information from them. Pressure points were meant to use as an accent to an already existing system of knowledge, not "the knowledge" You wouldn't put an M-16 in the hands of a child, and then teach him how to shoot. I actually teach pressure points all the time, except I tell my students where I want them to put their hand say for a grab, but do not tell them what they are doing. From what I have observed, and from the seminars I have taught at, Dillman students seem to focus too much on pressure pointing and not enough on basics. I met a former Dillman Sensei Shihan who had left the 'Dillma fold' as he called it because anyone who paid for the seminar could go, and he was seeing all ranks and all ages doing somethng he felt was inappropriate. I have to say I feel the same way, sorry if I said the wrong thing, but it's just my lowly opinion anyway.

#127015 - 10/11/03 01:08 AM Re: Introductions
kempo_jujitsu Offline

Registered: 06/15/03
Posts: 1914
Loc: illinois, usa that is all you and i disagree on....not a big deal, i truly respect your opinion.
in my opinion pressure points are the central theme of karate and kata...every basic is an attack to pressure points.
so we do alot of basics but you cant learn to swim without getting in the water so to speak. i dont see why you should wait until they are a high ranking black belt to teach basic kyusho, the pain alone will disuade many who cant handle it..and it takes too long to learn for people who just want to hurt people and guns...if all they want to do is hurt people they will just go get a knife or a gun..not study kyusho jutsu.
who needs self defense skills more...a 5th dan master(who should already know how to fight)...or a green belt?...especially a young, weak, or female greenbelt who is likely to be attacked by someone at least twice her size and strength.
there are points that are only indicated and not struck in class, there are points that could be especially dangerous that are not taught below a certain rank...learning is step by step and many instructors of the dillman method dont even teach kyusho in regular class...but have a seperate class for kyusho which seems to work well. and currently we are seeing a shift in the curriculum a more organized approach, and layed out manner, more practical and hands on...simply put its more about application instead of theory...if you cant actually do it..use the dont progress. in many ways kyusho is not as mystical and dangerous as most people think, but it can be even more so with experience.
also what you see at a seminar and what you see in a regular class are very different.
whats so different about teaching pressure points but not explaining them in their totality...and just openly teaching them?...we dont delve into the deeper theories (elements, cycle of destruction, yin yang, organs and such) in the beginning.
but i will admit...PERSONALLY i too would like to see a little more...selectiveness as to who trains what, when and how...not because i want to see them do more basics so much...but more for those few who might misuse the information...or ignorantly practice kyusho on people, friends, kids, or others, whos medical history they dont know, and also because they may not know the revival techniques. so it is definately a double edged sword! i have to agree with you..and dillman sensei strange i know. i have seen a beginner to kyusho practice on various people, he is a good friend of mine and i had to rough him up a little to make him see straight [IMG][/IMG] again...i can understand both sides...i think kyusho should be taught yes...but there has to be a line somewhere too.

#127016 - 10/11/03 02:11 AM Re: Introductions
senseilou Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2082
Loc: Glendale, Az.
Not to hijack this thread,but one final point. It is not every art or every situation that pressure points work. Those who have certain ailments, or have been on prolonged medicine don't feel many points. After a back injury combined with a burned thumb, I have no sensation to pain in one of my hands, you can hit every point to effect the hand and I don't feel the pain. Another point is that many people have 'recessed' pressure points and they do not react to the pain. I agree that Kyusho Jutsu is in kata, though do question if its the essence or not, however there are many lessons learned from kata and this is certainly one of them. However, in many instances, and since this is an Aikido post, lets look at using pressure points in Aikido. I was teaching a seminar and was teaching a throw, when one of the "blue belt" Kyusho students didn't work the throw, rather, tried stepping on the persons foot (between the toes-liver point)to hit the pressure point. when I corrected him, he informed me his way was more efficient. I explained at first that when you apply a pressure point you stop the follow of Ki, and reverse it. This is how you create stagnant Ki and that is what causes the pain. You need to continue the energy of the attacker for the throw, not stop it. Basically, he could not see anything but his pressure point studies, and he was quite limited in his ability as his basics were awful. If you have bad basics, it will take you longer to find the points and in my opinion, you need to know what you are doing to this person. You can not do this by Blue Belt. Anyway, this student informed me throws were a waste of time, and he could knock me out before I could do the throw. I stopped the seminar, and embarrassed this student in front of everyone telling them how he was stopping energy, then I allowed him to knock me out. Before he knew what was happening I had a finger lock, a throw with his finger and an elbow and wrist lock on the ground, and never did he once come near me. The answer was I needed to stand there and let him knock me out. Of course neither I nor any somewhat intelligent person will just let you do this. I understand on a higher plane it can be done, by not letting the person do it, but this ideaology of wasting time trying to do this, and not learning basics, are creating sloppy martial artists. Don't get me wrong, pressure points are very valuable, but you need to know when and how to use this. I am sure you know that certain points work better at certain times, whether being a time or a zodiac sign. As a test we have tried this and its very true. Its not something a beginner can master, or should. Up until Black Belt all kyus should be working mastering their basics, no matter what the art.In Okinawa, Kyushu Jutsu was not taught until 4th Dan, and my Sensei's Sensei was furious when he found out my Sensei let me do some at Nidan. If nothing else, the privacy of the information should be saved and we adhere to what the past Masters felt and obey their feelings on this subject. It is getting to the point, students believe that they don't need the karate just the pressure points. In your own argument, you need kata as the vehicle to learn the pressure points(angle of attack and tai sabaki)so how can their pressure point art be any good if their kata suffers for lack of basics. I met a Okinawan Shihan who said this about kata:
learn the form
add speed to the form
add power to the form
dissect the form(bunkai)
find joint locks in the form
find pressure points in the form.
In this process, the basics should be in tact by the time you work the rest of the kata.

#127017 - 10/11/03 04:14 AM Re: Introductions
Cato Offline

Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 1636
If you don't mind joe, I'm going to abstain from this one. I think it is completely irrelevant what grade someone has, which style they prefer, which sensei they've met or how long they have trained. Surely their life experiences are just as important, or whether or not they actually have used their MA training, in any sense, outside the dojo?

I prefer to judge the person on what I read in their posts. In my opinion MA is not always about specific knowledge, but more about what you as a person can bring to the discussion. I have trained with people down the years who never seem to grow with their art. Sure, they go up the grades and repeat what they have been shown along the way, but the rarely if ever stop to question anything so they never fully understand their subject.

So, I would ask you to form your opinion of me on what you see me posting, and I will do the same for all of you. [IMG][/IMG]


#127018 - 10/11/03 05:26 AM Re: Introductions
dazzler Offline

Registered: 09/22/03
Posts: 296
Loc: England

I'm with Cato pretty much on this.

I'll say my main art is aikido which I've practiced for quite a while with the cream of Europes instructors. I've also practiced ju jitsu for a long time too again with one of the UKs most respected and have experience of boxing, grappling and vale tudo...oh and tae kwon do about 20 years ago..

I used to drink lots of beer and as a result have been involved in lots of situations that were unnecessary...but great experience anyway!

My grades are immaterial my posts, if you agree then cool - great minds think alike...if you disagree then discuss...I already find this site highly motivational and am happy to share knowledge with everyone and cross brains with all.

To me this is a forum...(it says so on the page!) - everyone has an equal say and equal right...For this reason I dont think its necessary for Lou to call himself sensei...his posts speak volumes for his experience and I have full respect for that but I believe that the word sensei conveys too much significance on this site.

Anyway - hello all, maybe some of us will meet on the mat someday to continue the exchange!

#127019 - 10/11/03 05:28 PM Re: Introductions
senseilou Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2082
Loc: Glendale, Az.
I have never asked or demanded to be called Sensei. Sensei Lou is my nickname as their are other Sensei in my school. So when someone says Sesnei we don't know who they are referring to. Therefore in my dojo we go by Sensei and our first name. If I were trying to be boastful it would say Shihan and would use it the formal. Klaff Shihan which is what ettiquette calls for. I have never said anything when someone addresses me by first name, its called a user name, and with my name you know who it is. However, in the environment and the people I have trained with, we are considered by our title on and off the mat. I would never consider, calling my Sensei Bruce or Frank no matter what the setting. Even in e-mail communication, protocol is always abided by. You have a problem with calling me Sensei, don't, you guys in England seem to have a different view of how things need to be and don't follow the same protocol that maybe we do. I do suggest however, if that is the way we do things, it should be respected. I think you can ask Chris and he will tell you that I am one of the last people who stand on formal ceremony even in class!

#127020 - 10/13/03 03:27 AM Re: Introductions
dazzler Offline

Registered: 09/22/03
Posts: 296
Loc: England
Hi Lou

May not be guys in England, maybe just me...

Off the mat eveyone is the same to me. I don't like to be called Sensei and I dont like to use it for others.

Thanks for reply, no disrespect intended, just giving a view of me and my take on things.



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