FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 32 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
LeroyCFischer, JadeKing, Beefcake, WesJones, simonajones111
22933 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
futsaowingchun 2
charlie 2
GojuRyuboy13 1
Zombie Zero 1
harlan 1
November
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29
30
New Topics
unrecognized kata
by William_Bent
11/19/14 07:05 PM
I gained a lot of month in the last few months
by simonajones111
11/19/14 04:54 AM
Siu Lin Tao-3rd section applications
by futsaowingchun
11/13/14 06:48 PM
Screen fighting course UK December 2014
by charlie
11/11/14 04:09 PM
Siu Lin Tao-1st section Pak Sao explanations
by futsaowingchun
11/09/14 10:30 PM
I spy kata bunkai..
by GojuRyuboy13
10/29/14 08:28 AM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/30/13 07:41 AM
Where Are They Now?
by Dobbersky
05/30/13 08:08 AM
MA style video library
by
03/22/06 03:18 PM
Recent Posts
unrecognized kata
by William_Bent
11/19/14 07:05 PM
I gained a lot of month in the last few months
by simonajones111
11/19/14 04:54 AM
Siu Lin Tao-3rd section applications
by futsaowingchun
11/13/14 06:48 PM
Screen fighting course UK December 2014
by charlie
11/11/14 04:09 PM
MA style video library
by charlie
11/11/14 04:05 PM
Siu Lin Tao-1st section Pak Sao explanations
by futsaowingchun
11/09/14 10:30 PM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/29/14 10:01 PM
I spy kata bunkai..
by GojuRyuboy13
10/29/14 08:28 AM
Forum Stats
22933 Members
36 Forums
35589 Topics
432521 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Topic Options
#127007 - 10/04/03 02:07 AM Descriptive names
senseilou Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2082
Loc: Glendale, Az.
I have noticed in the responses that people talk about a technique, say kotegaeshi, and everyone assumes its being done the same way. There are many names for Kotegaeshi, and it comes from the 2nd level of Aiki-Jujutsu techniques called Kotemawashi. What is most important about this is the term is just a descriptive title of the waza, not the way in which the waza is done. Depending on how the lock is applied many styles can have similar locks of differing names. One art I have studied takes kotegaeshi(outward wrist turn-kote maki-te hanna-kote-otoshi what ever you want to call it. Chin Na call the techniqe "white ape worships Buddah, yet they all are not done the same)and pins the elbow on the ground/mat and presses down on the wrist. It is indeed a form of Kotegaeshi. Another style I use calls this lock a Gosseneck lock, though my gooseneck is to the side. My point here is that we are dealing with semantics, and one can say they can get out of a certain technique based on its name, yet without seeing the technique, one can not say "I can reverse this or this doesn't work on me" All techniques that wind, say kotegaeshi, can be unwound, and you get Nikkyo(another Kote Mawashi-nikajo, wing lock-gakyu kote maki etc). It can be decptive to generalize techniques by name, versus their function. Aikido Nikkyo is mainly done with a 'z' shape of the arm. Most Aikido joint locks do not go bone to bone or attack the joint but rather go 'with' the joint. Our locks always go against the joint, or bone to bone. Our version of Nikkyo, called a 'wing lock'is done with both hands at the wrist, and taken straight down and brings the attacker into a knee. This is much different than my basic Nikkyo that I learned in Aiki. Chin Na applies pressure points, grabbing tendons, and a wringing motion to its locks, they look the same, but are entirely different, with different names. Once again I think its important not to get hung up on names of techniques, but more so HOW they are applied.

Top
#127008 - 10/05/03 08:32 AM Re: Descriptive names
Cato Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 1636
Basically, I agree entirely. We all talk in terms of this attack and that defence and, as a recent discusion has taught me, we can be talking about very different things.

However, I think by and large most aikidoka recognise there are "common" techniques, such as kote gaeshi, that are readily recognisable between dojo and for the most part we all assume that it is the common variant that we mean unless we say otherwise. If we don't acknowledge at least some uniformity in our techniques then it will be impossible to discuss anything technical.

Budo

Top
#127009 - 10/05/03 09:35 PM Re: Descriptive names
kempo_jujitsu Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/03
Posts: 1914
Loc: illinois, usa
good posts.
in our practice, the wrist locks are named for the way the attackers joint moves (or doesnt move) [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]....not how we do them...because there are many ways to do the same lock....what makes it the same lock is ukes position...not ours.

Top
#127010 - 10/06/03 05:54 AM Re: Descriptive names
dazzler Offline
Member

Registered: 09/22/03
Posts: 296
Loc: England
I'll go along with this thread too.

We use 'techniques' as 'teachings' to practice Aikido bases (see previous posts...) eg. to achieve the Z shape for nikkyo we'd use irimi to bend the arm...If it doesn't bend then hijikimeosae would suffice. (oops ...assuming this means the same to all...you might call it rokkyo) ...or elbow smashing!

That way the basic 'techniques' can have multiple variations without compromising the value of your practice.

Lou is absolutely right...don't get hung up on immobilisations.

Enjoyed the posts!

Thanks

D

Top


Moderator:  Ames, Cord, MattJ, Reiki 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Fight Videos
Night club fight footage and street fights captured with the world's first bouncer spy cam

How to Matrix!
Learn ten times faster with new training method. Learn entire arts for as little as $10 per disk.

Self Defense
Stun guns, pepper spray, Mace and self defense products. Alarms for personal and home use.

TASER MC26C
Stop An Urban Gorilla: Get 2 FREE TASER M26C Replacement Air Cartridges With Each New TASER M26C!

 

Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga