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#126793 - 09/07/03 09:10 PM Aiki groundwork
Joe Jutsu Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/09/03
Posts: 575
I had someone claim to me the other day that there are some styles of aikido that do groundwork. Unfortunately, mine is not one of them. Does anyone know which styles (if any) work on applying aikido on the ground. I've read on this forum that some believe that aiki techniques can be applied from the ground, but I can only assume that one would need to practice them to be proficient at it. Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Joe.

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#126794 - 09/08/03 11:40 AM Re: Aiki groundwork
csinca Offline
former moderator

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 672
Loc: Southern California
Joe,

I train in an unaffiliated dojo that does practice groundwork. We've really only been training groundwork since the beginning of this year. I don't know of other stykes of aikido that regularly train groundwork but I'm sure you'll get other input...

Our groudwork applies the principles we use standing but use them lying down.

For instance, you need to lock uke's skeleton to use any of the ikkyo, nikkyo, kote type "techniques". The same is true on the ground, to control the other guy you need to control his skeleton.

You need to stay relaxed.

Secondary motion is very important.

Moving from the hips is even more important on the ground.

chris

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#126795 - 09/09/03 10:27 AM Re: Aiki groundwork
Joe Jutsu Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/09/03
Posts: 575
Thanks for the reply Chris.

That is cool that you're dojo is starting to do groundwork. Unfortunately, that is not the case in my dojo, where the attitude seems to be "stay mind and body coordinated and you will not have to face a situation where you will be wrestling on the ground."

Well, maybe Tohei Sensei never got taken down, but I'm not exactly Tohei. I have about one night open that I'm thinking about taking up another MA to improve my ground game. It looks like my options are Judo and Brazilian Ju Jitsu. I've heard that Judo can nicely compliment Aikido, but Brazilian Ju Jitsu is definitely more ground oriented. A concern that I have about Brazilian Ju Jitsu is that the Gracie's were awesome, but it doesn't seem like their students have reached anywhere close to that level, and I can't exactly travel to Brazil for lessons, unfortunately. And I have long dreadlocks, which I don't want to cut just to take up another MA. Would that be a problem in a BJJ club? If anyone could answer or give their input to these questions I'd be greatly appreciated.

Joe

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#126796 - 09/09/03 01:43 PM Re: Aiki groundwork
immrtldragon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/22/03
Posts: 1540
Loc: Just outside Philadelphia, PA
As for you hair, I'm sure you could find a way to keep it out of the way (headband, ponytail, etc.). Also, I just wanted to add my two cents, BJJ is not more ground oriented or better, depending on where you train. I posted a link on the Judo forum for the Judoinfo.com website. You can see much of the matwork demonstrated in videos on the website and also see BJJ athletes (Helio and Royce Gracie) fight with Judo athletes under the competition video section. I don't remember the direct link but if you go to the Judo forum under the topic BJJ (i think), you can veiw how effective Judo can be for grappling. Also, it would complement your Aikido better due to the underlying principle of Judo (use your opponent against himself, much like Aikido). If he pulls: push, if he pushes: pull...all about the harmony, not strength.

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#126797 - 09/09/03 01:51 PM Re: Aiki groundwork
immrtldragon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/22/03
Posts: 1540
Loc: Just outside Philadelphia, PA
Correction: I posted the links under the "martial arts talk forum," under the topic "judo." Not that there is anything wrong with BJJ, I think Judo would be a better compliment.

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#126798 - 09/09/03 05:22 PM Re: Aiki groundwork
csinca Offline
former moderator

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 672
Loc: Southern California
Joe,

Good luck in your search. I have limited exposure to BJJ but the one thing I do like about what the Gracie's have done is they have formalized a strategy for groundwork that I'm just starting to understand. I don't have much to compare it against but from what I'm seeing, I like their teaching methods. The art itself I think is proven.

I recently played for an evening with a judoka. Initially he was putting me on my but but then I got the hang of what he was doing and we were stalemated. We never did go to the ground.

I guess I've never seen the judo ground game but I guess they have one.

In any case, I wouldn't recommend training where they "just wrestle" but rather find somewhere that is going to introduce the basics and some strategy.

If your ever in the San Diego area, let me know.

Chris

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#126799 - 09/09/03 05:25 PM Re: Aiki groundwork
csinca Offline
former moderator

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 672
Loc: Southern California
Oh yeah, about the hair. While long hair may make a good handle for someone to grab, keep in mind that as soon as they do that one of their hands is now occupied and can't defend against your hand.... Keep busy and make them pay for grabbing your hair [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

Chris

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#126800 - 09/09/03 06:08 PM Re: Aiki groundwork
Joe Jutsu Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/09/03
Posts: 575
Thanks for your replies guys.

Chris- You made me laugh. If someone grabs a handful of locks there will be hell to pay!
If I'm in the San Diego area I will definitely let you know. A good friend of mine just moved out to Santa Cruz to go to grad school, which is a ways away still but who knows? I'm definitely feeling a pull to go out west.

I guess my best plan of action at this point would be to go and watch/participate in a few sessions of both arts. I'm lucky enough to have access to both a judo and a bjj club at my university (and aikido of course! [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG] ).

I guess I'll keep you posted but anymore thoughts on the subject are always most appreciated.

Arigato

Joe.

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#126801 - 09/09/03 10:49 PM Re: Aiki groundwork
Anonymous
Unregistered


Bjj does not use strength.By actualy rolling, you learn to feel your opponents weight,where there posted,and if they shift it.Bjj is probably about 70%-80% groundwork.
for more info goto www.gracie.com ,or do a google search for brazilian jujitsu.

ps.bjj is based off of pre WWII judo.

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#126802 - 09/09/03 10:56 PM Re: Aiki groundwork
Joe Jutsu Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/09/03
Posts: 575
Thanks for your post nekogami-

Forgive me if I'm asking the wrong person, but how is pre WWII Judo different from post. I know a bit of how aikido "evolved" over the war, but I have zero experience in judo and know little of its history.

Thanks,

Joe.

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