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#126633 - 08/17/03 04:40 PM Re: Karate hard, Aikido soft?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by nekogami13:
S.E.A.Ls train with ninja like weapons?
trained in assasination?
Train in aikido?
You are one confused child. I suggest you get your information from more reliable sources than children's cartoons.

Watch the history channel, discovery channel-they run shows on special forces all the time. Better yet, go read a book.

I read books, you look at too much TV. Television is a recreation of reality it is not the ultimate truth.

#126634 - 08/21/03 06:20 AM Re: Karate hard, Aikido soft?
Cato Offline

Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 1636
TV is not true [IMG][/IMG] You mean there has never been a Starsky and Hutch?? My life is empty.

Interesting discussion on military hand to hand fighting but I wonder what relevance it has to, well, anything really. It is a bit like the "my sensei can whip your sensei" debate, and not so very far from "my dad is bigger than your dad" issue in every playground everywhere. We all train in the style we feel we personally can achieve most in. It doesn't matter that someone from another style is a better or worse fighter than me, I will only ever be as good as I can be. What matters is that I choose the style(s)I train in with care and that I train dilligently.

If I'm unfortunate enough to meet and fight with a US SEAL or a British SAS commando they will kick my arse. Not because their "style" is superior to mine but because they are tough lads and it wouldn't matter if they never trained in any MA in their life, they will still be tough lads. Get a bunch of tough lads together and teach them the worst MA you can think of and they will still kick ass. It doesn't mean their style is any good, just that they are.


#126635 - 06/22/04 01:25 AM Re: Karate hard, Aikido soft?
reaperblack Offline

Registered: 04/30/04
Posts: 558
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
just to clarify, aikido is a soft style because it is an internal style meant to use ki, rather than brute force. There are no strikes in aikido, only tsukis, which is like a stab or punch, but there is never contact. Aikido is also a soft style because of the fact that it involves redirection rather than stopping force. As far as what art is taught to the military in the us, good luck at figuring that out there are several different types, and there are many moves constant throughout many styles. Eg. aikido, judo, jujitsu, aiki jujitsu, and shorin ryu karate all have similar throws and locks. Some would say because they are all descended from the bubushi or daito ryu aiki jujitsu, but i leave this debate to the historians. And besides not all styles of karate are hard, shorin ryu is considered a hard and soft style.

#126636 - 06/22/04 06:39 AM Re: Karate hard, Aikido soft?
Rimrag Offline

Registered: 06/12/04
Posts: 28
Loc: Phila. Pa. USA
Hiriki Aikido = "Elbow Aikido"; An entire School of O-Sensei's Aikido.

#126637 - 06/26/04 09:31 PM Re: Karate hard, Aikido soft?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Shotokan:
I don't know why people say Aikido is soft.

Being a Shotokan man, I know kicking high in a real fight isn't wise. Kicking is used mostly for stopping the opponent. Best when combine with trapping and even when combined with locking. I wouldn't waste my time kicking below the waist the only point worth kicking when fighting someone bigger is the groin.

Kicking was effective in the fights of the old days when the sword and the staff was used. It was a great tool to reach the opponent while keeping at bay.

That leaves me with the devastating punches, the blocking, pivoting, trapping, elbows and knees. <<That's all we've got!

I don't why people say Karate is hard and Aikido is soft. When it comes to the street the Aikido practioner has the advantage because he has more (useful and realistic) tools at his disposal: Throws, locks, resistance training, takedowns, elbows, knees, blocking, devastating punches, pivoting, trapping.

No offense to other karate practioners but this is just my opinion.

[This message has been edited by Shotokan (edited 08-06-2003).]
Errrr, I dont know where you studied karate,but these are determinations made by YOU.And are not true,and not what is taught in Karate.You said you "would not waste your time kicking below the waste in a real fight, that the only point worth kicking is the groin".....I dis-agree.THE KNEES ARE MORE VALUABLE THAN THE GROIN.And more devastating.You mentioned high kicks have no value??!!??,well,Mark "the hammer" coleman,would certainly differ on that point!A HIGH KICK to his head....knocked'm out!I personally, got into a fight in my dojo many years ago,w/a higher ranked,more skilled Karate practicioner,AND IT WAS A HIGH KICK,---that knocked him out!(I feinted a front kick,then-- WHIPPED AROUND QUICKLY---my TRUEGOAL---a high inner-edge kick,to the left side of his FACE.)SO YOU SEE?, it depends on the person.P.S.No offense taken, just sharing my view on the subject.---terry

#126638 - 07/16/04 10:54 PM Re: Karate hard, Aikido soft?

i think that ppl say that karate is hard because u have to be stronger than a aikido martist.

btw my fav style is jitsu because its well balanced. [IMG][/IMG]

#126639 - 07/26/04 02:00 AM Re: Karate hard, Aikido soft?
reaperblack Offline

Registered: 04/30/04
Posts: 558
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
Again that depends on the style. I used to do aikido, now i do shorin kan karate, many of the movements are very similar. Shorin ryu is a hard and soft style containing throws, holds and locks, strikes, and pressure points, and limb destructions. Some of this is hard some is soft.

#126640 - 07/26/04 07:22 AM Re: Karate hard, Aikido soft?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by hansito:
i think that ppl say that karate is hard because u have to be stronger than a aikido martist.

btw my fav style is jitsu because its well balanced. [IMG][/IMG]

Is Ki used in Karate? This is a genuine question i'm not being rhetorical,I don't know much about karate. Physical strength plays no part in real aikido as inner strength (ki) has proven to be more effective albeit very difficult to master.

One of my Sensei's is 4'9" female 5th Dan and we had a difficult new comer who had a background in karate and was trying to show off during class. He said aikido was useless and challenged sensei to neutralize one of his attacks. She eventually agreed and using her ki, she neutralized the attack. Also with the uke using all his physical strength in his attack only drove him down into the mat harder. You should have seen the look on his face, he wasn't happy. We didn't see him after that.

#126641 - 07/26/04 01:55 PM Re: Karate hard, Aikido soft?
senseilou Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2082
Loc: Glendale, Az.
its not the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog

I have seen many smaller good technicians. Look at the Okinawan and Japanesee even Chinesse Masters, they are not big by American standards. It all goes back to how you train. Not the technique but the technician, not the art but the artist.If one style was superior we all would do it. We all want to be the best we can. More than that, all the arts and styles have something to offer, you just have to find what fits you best.By the way, I saw a Karate Black (Nidan)belt take out every instructor and every senior Aikidoka in a school. There were all 4-5th Dans and none, not one lasted even a minute. The were 2 big things to note. Number 1 the Karate-ka trained in Korea, and knew how to fight and being an MP did indeed use his art in Korean. At that time Koreans loved beating up on service men. He was in the dojo to learn Aiki and the senior instructors wanted to show how Karate was neutralized by Aikido. Their plan failed, which I think is another reason, Aikidoka are not use to being hit, its not a question of strength, but in Karate there is contact, sometimes alot. Many a night I struggled to the car after a good butt whipping. Aikido is very aerobic and good for conditioning but does not address another type of conditioning being hit. After a couple of strikes and kicks from my friend , the instructors wanted no more. So it all depends, again its not the art but how its practiced. On another note, I saw the same Karate-ka bounced around by Toyoda Shihan like he was a a toy. After class the Karateka told Toyoda Shihan he had never had a beating like that. Just goes to show

Now as for Ki in Karate. For some strange reason people believe that Ki doesn't exist in Karate. Maybe because there is no mention of it in the name, I don't know. All your internal Chineese styles study, and employ Chi as a main stay of the art, Okinawan and Japanesse styles too use Ki but maybe learn it a bit differently, none the less use it. Anytime someone is breaking bricks, stones or wood, they use their Ki. We use to have to practice the 'iron shirt' where Sensei would come around with a jo or a bo and strike your body while you practiced your breathing. There are kata(forms)especially created to create and improve your inner-strength. However, everyone has ki, just Martial Artists know how to cultivate and use it. Adrenaline is the same thing to a non-martial artist. I saw a man who had no training, weak and small pick up a cement patio table and move it accross a room to protect his family during a storm at the beach. I have seen before where people who don't practice other arts believe that Ki is intrinsict in their art alone. Its not the case.

#126642 - 09/10/04 06:43 AM Re: Karate hard, Aikido soft?
ken harding Offline

Registered: 04/21/04
Posts: 721
Loc: UK
The Airborne Rangers of England are doing Russian Sambo techniques in their studies.

Senseilou - the who??????????

There are paras, SAS, SBS, Royal Marine and elite regiments but I never heard of "Rangers of England".

The Armed forces of the UK are "British". England is one (ok the largest) country within Britain or the UK.

For this reason we have Irish Guards. Scots Guards regiments etc.

Sorry to be pedantic but wanted to clear this up.

I am however in agreement with your main points though.
Shotokan - learn your art properly there's more to it then you think or have been taught by the sound of what you say.

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