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#126623 - 08/08/03 04:18 AM Re: Karate hard, Aikido soft?
Cato Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 1636
Why does it matter which MA certain military units make use of? Hand to hand traininmg is only a very minor part of military tactics, and as has been pointed out, techniques need to be easy to use, effective and adaptable to a lot of people of varying levels of proficiency.

I have had the opportunity to look at the training of the Russian military, and it was unlike anything I have ever seen before. What it wsn't was style specific, it wasn't even a martial art in the traditional sense, but it was very direct. Some of the techniques bordered on being suicidal!! I would assume that is true of every style of hand to hand fighting withinj the military.

For the record, I work and trained alongside ex-military personnel all the time, from different units, and it is my experience that they have no particular interest in MA, nor any exceptional skill at it.

Budo

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#126624 - 08/08/03 08:26 AM Re: Karate hard, Aikido soft?
Raul Perez Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 2805
Loc: Lake Ronkonkoma, NY, USA
Cato.. you are absolutely right. Senseilou lets just agree to disagree with Shotokan.

Thanks for the interesting post Shotokan.

My best,

Raul

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#126625 - 08/08/03 03:10 PM Re: Karate hard, Aikido soft?
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Raul Perez:
Cato.. you are absolutely right. Senseilou lets just agree to disagree with Shotokan.

Thanks for the interesting post Shotokan.

My best,

Raul
[/QUOTE]

I agree with Raul this can go on forever because you aren't willing to accept anything I tell you even though I posted some sites backing this up. I give up.
Hand to Hand is a small part of military operations of course and a small part of law enforcements but whatever. I'm not saying that the police and army single out Aikido as an effective art. They often cross train some even use Karate.

I give up this post is a waste of my time and energy if some people aren't gonna acknowledge it.

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#126626 - 08/09/03 01:57 AM Re: Karate hard, Aikido soft?
kempo_jujitsu Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/03
Posts: 1914
Loc: illinois, usa
who says karate is hard? [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

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#126627 - 08/09/03 10:13 PM Re: Karate hard, Aikido soft?
Karate kid Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/07/03
Posts: 598
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Shotokan:
I agree with Raul this can go on forever because you aren't willing to accept anything I tell you even though I posted some sites backing this up. I give up.
Hand to Hand is a small part of military operations of course and a small part of law enforcements but whatever. I'm not saying that the police and army single out Aikido as an effective art. They often cross train some even use Karate.

I give up this post is a waste of my time and energy if some people aren't gonna acknowledge it.
[/QUOTE]

I agree with you all the way shotokan, and also with everyone else, except for sensei loo who showed his IMMATURE side. I know 1st graders who know that navy seals are alot more ass kickin than marines. UNLESS, you are talking bout marine recon team s-forces. WHICH seal team 5 is better than any s-forces which i dont wanna argue about cause it dont go with the post. THANKS ALL

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#126628 - 08/13/03 08:02 PM Re: Karate hard, Aikido soft?
Joe Jutsu Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/09/03
Posts: 575
I don't know if I should post my thoughts in this thread or not because I really dislike the direction it has gone, but here are some of my thoughts on softness and Aikido.


I was training last night with a member of my dojo, whom I've discussed in another thread about bullies. I don't believe him to be a bully anymore, I think he really enjoys working with me because I guess that my ukemi is really pretty good and he knows that I can take hard breakfalls which he loves to throw people into even though we're not "supposed to" anymore.

But at last night's practice, he was setting me up for what should have been a "no touch throw." I had been attacking with a same side wrist grab for a few attacks in a row and getting thrown zenpo nage, but about the third time he extended his arm in a sayu undo/atemi movement. I've been working fourteen our days lately, and was not on top of it. He did this to me about a week ago and it ended up with me taking a back breakfall and avoiding his arm. Last night... BAM!! He connected full force right into my nose. I was wearing my glasses which I normally don't do, but I was needing to read some stuff on our dry erase board, and my glasses got knocked up and sort of stuck in my hair, which was embarrassing (I'm probably one of the few aikidoka with dreadlocks). But man, he sure stunned me. His technique was definitely effective, I hit the ground and was in no condition to attack again [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]. But now my nose is swollen, luckily not broken, but it got me wondering how often karate dojo's make such contact. I bet probably as often as has happened in my aikido training.

The second thought that I have is regarding yonkyo, which I'm going to be tested on during my next test. I noticed in another thread that Sensei Lou dislikes the technique because he does not think that it is effective or very painful. I don't what the jujutsu equivalent is that you were talking about Sensei L., but I have a bruise on the inside of my left wrist from yonkyo, and it still hurts!! It's probably not so effective when I do it, but my sempai has had to use it in multiple "real life" situations, and its one of his favorites. I now know why. OUCH! [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

So for practicing arguably the softest style of one of the softest martial arts, I'm pretty well beaten up right now. I shudder to think what would happen to me in a hard style [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG] LOL. I'm actually not that big of a wimp but I like poking fun at myself.


And now for more abuse!!

Joe.

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#126629 - 08/13/03 10:28 PM Re: Karate hard, Aikido soft?
Anonymous
Unregistered


S.E.A.Ls train with ninja like weapons?
trained in assasination?
Train in aikido?
You are one confused child. I suggest you get your information from more reliable sources than children's cartoons.

Watch the history channel, discovery channel-they run shows on special forces all the time. Better yet, go read a book.

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#126630 - 08/14/03 02:23 AM Re: Karate hard, Aikido soft?
kempo_jujitsu Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/03
Posts: 1914
Loc: illinois, usa
what id yonkyo exactly, i method of locking the wrist i know, but what is it in english lol i dont know any of them, we call them front lock, back lock, reverse lock, hand throw, and vertical lock.

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#126631 - 08/14/03 09:26 AM Re: Karate hard, Aikido soft?
csinca Offline
former moderator

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 672
Loc: Southern California
Joe,

I can attest that Yonkyo does not work on all people. It sometimes works on me and it will not work on my sensei. It may well cause bruising but the technique relies in hitting the nerves in the forearm, not rupturing the capillaries. I don't know if my nerves are dead from training or if they just ain't there.

I guess the main thing that I don't like about yonkyo is it doesn't incorporate any kind of structural lock.

Kempo,

If you ever get a really big strong guy to grab your wrist, and when you go to move his knuckles (usually the base of either the index or the thumb) dig into your forearm and hit the nerves... that's the flavor of yonkyo.

Chris

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#126632 - 08/14/03 10:34 AM Re: Karate hard, Aikido soft?
Raul Perez Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 2805
Loc: Lake Ronkonkoma, NY, USA
Let it go Nekogami13. If you read that post too much your eyes will bleed.

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