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#126297 - 08/07/05 01:28 PM Re: aiki? [Re: csinca]
csinca Offline
former moderator

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 672
Loc: Southern California
eyrie, I don't know if you ever saw this thread.

chris

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#126298 - 08/07/05 07:57 PM Re: aiki? [Re: csinca]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
I thought I did...before the move. Ah well...I gotta figure out how to use this search function. It's not very user friendly....

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#126299 - 08/07/05 09:58 PM Re: aiki? [Re: csinca]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
To address your original post:

Personally, I would not fault either of the 2 situations you mentioned above. Ikkyo is an armbar (or at least, the principle of). Shime-waza is part of the syllabus of a number of "aiki" variants.

"aiki" is a principle (that is in accordance with Nature), not a bunch of physical techniques. Anyone that tells you otherwise (like "oh, that's not an aikido technique"), probably doesn't understand the difference or the inherent paradoxical nature of both.

All techniques are, at their highest level of expression, "aiki" in nature. This was already pointed out by SenseiLou above. I have trained with many high-ranking practitioners from other styles/systems (and I'm talking 6th dan and above), that have more "aiki" than most "aiki" people.

OTOH, no matter how much I resist, these high-level practitioners can throw me like a ragdoll or twist me into various pretzel shapes, without having to put on pain compliance. In that respect, I am also practising "aiki", by simply going with them (or staying one step ahead of the technique).

I know this is an old thread from 2 years ago, and things have probably changed a lot for you in terms of training, but can I suggest that you need to avoid the "aiki-fruity" types and approach the art with a more "jutsu" mentality.

It may be a "do" art, but unless one approaches a martial art with a "jutsu" approach, all you're practising is "dancing".

Which may not necessarily be such a bad thing. Even as you are "dancing", you can still mentally focus on the joint locks, the breaks and dislocations as you're doing the technique. i.e. your body is going through the motions of the technique, but what is your mind doing?

"do" is simply a way of approaching a martial art thru other means (mental/spiritual intent/other?) which does not necessarily mean belting the crap out of each other, but knowing that you could and how you could, if necessary.

IOW, what I'm reading here is not so much whether this or that technique is "aiki" or not "aiki", but whether you are practising a "do" or "jutsu" art.

If you take a purely technique-driven "jutsu" approach, without consideration for the overarching spiritual philosophy, then you're not IMHO, practising the "do".

And if you're practising the "do" form, then why would you need to resort to "base" level techniques (of breaking, dislocating, maiming), when you (and your partner) can practise in a "martial-like manner"?

I suggest that we need both "do" and "jutsu" to become more complete individuals. (Note the deliberate avoidance of the term "martial artist", because ultimately it's never about "fighting", but that which makes us more human(e).)

Ultimately, "aiki" means nothing without a partner. BTW, the "partner" doesn't have to be a person. It can be "Nature" itself....

A few years ago, my "aiki" teacher, started to drop the "do" from aikido. His admonition was for each of us to find the "Way", i.e. to find OUR own way. Understanding the spiritual philosophy underpinning the art, and knowing the potential lethality of the technical side is one thing. Embodying the paradox of both is quite another.

FWIW,

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