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#126075 - 08/24/03 09:14 PM Re: Boxing and Aiki
kempo_jujitsu Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/03
Posts: 1914
Loc: illinois, usa
why do you say that aikido and jujutsu's principles are better than karate's?
that is simply not true....infact they have many of the same principles in common...especially with jujutsu.

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#126076 - 08/25/03 07:20 PM Re: Boxing and Aiki
John C Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/24/03
Posts: 10
Loc: United Kingdom
I have trained in both styles i feel that alot of classic forms of Karate pay too much attention to competition losing the basis of a true fighting art Katas are just done to look good to get grades, and few practitioners have a clue what the techniques mean. I feel that Aikido and JuJitsu and forms of Kung-fu have more practical training designed towards reel combat.

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#126077 - 08/27/03 04:43 AM Re: Boxing and Aiki
kempo_jujitsu Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/03
Posts: 1914
Loc: illinois, usa
but you cant blame the art of karate, its how people teach and practice it....or how they dont teach it or dont practice it.
karate forms, kung fu forms...same difference, the key is bunkai, breaking down and dissecting the form and learning the real meaning behind the movements. which you will do if you are in a good karate dojo.
you arent going to learn combat karate at a sport karate school.

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#126078 - 08/27/03 05:03 PM Re: Boxing and Aiki
John C Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/24/03
Posts: 10
Loc: United Kingdom
Your right but there are few Karate schools other than styles like GoJu-Ryu who still know the art its not the art its the teachers. Thats why styles like Kung-fu and Ju-Jitsu also Aikido who have still kept their purity, I have found so much translation of Wado Katas within these styles. Anyway its nice to talk with you what is your background and where are you from?

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#126079 - 08/28/03 04:09 AM Re: Boxing and Aiki
Cato Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 1636
You see, kempo - you and I aren't so different in our opinions after all. Your point about it being the "teachers not the art" is exactly the same as my point about there being too many "new" styles around. They undermine and weaken the original arts. That is why I think it is important to at least try to keep to the original art and practice it in its entirity, not water it down by leaving bits out or adding a little of this art and that art to "improve" it. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

Karareka are usually keen to tell me that karate is a complete art with throws and locks etc., but you try and find a dojo that teaches it as such. I've seen a lot of karate and I've never seen it practiced with throws and locks. Maybe if people had stuck to the original art I would have?

Budo

PS John - What is Wado ryu Ju jutsu?

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#126080 - 08/28/03 06:51 AM Re: Boxing and Aiki
John C Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/24/03
Posts: 10
Loc: United Kingdom
I studied Wado-ryu Karate, and Zankido Ryu, Ju-Jitsu, I am at present a first Dan in Aikido in Bristol England, are you in England?

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#126081 - 08/31/03 11:10 AM Re: Boxing and Aiki
Cato Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 1636
Sorry, John - I see my mistake now - wado ryu AND ju jutsu not wado ryu ju jutsu (one system). Now it makes sense.

Yes, I am in England (North West), and I trained for quite a while with the IABC who I believe are quite well known down you neck of the woods? (Well, south anyway - Once I get past Chesire it's all the same to me [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] )

I see you trained in wing chun. I took that for a short while and found it a really impressive art. Usually I'm not a fan of Chinese styles, but this one is different, very direct and the total opposite to aikido. Have you managed to train in it along side your aikido?

Budo

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#126082 - 08/31/03 08:31 PM Re: Boxing and Aiki
John C Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/24/03
Posts: 10
Loc: United Kingdom
I love to train the Martial Arts it is a disipline and good for your health but as a practical modern self defence many of them require too much space Wing-chung in my opinion is the best Art for close quarter fighting. Aspects of Wing-chung can refine your evasion so redusing the large movments "Wing Chun is one of the most natural and effective martial arts, simple yet devastating. It was developed for street practical self-defence, however in keeping with Chinese tradition martial arts training also serves as a defence against disease and degeneration, not just thugs and bullies. i.e.: defence inside, defence outside."

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#126083 - 09/03/03 07:31 AM Re: Boxing and Aiki
tiger Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 16
Loc: taylor, Michigan , USA
Hi,
I just wanted to say that it depends where you train as to whether you learn to defend against a combination punch. I have seen several schools that teach defenses for this attack, for example if you have ever seen Sensei Segal's students, you would know that there is several techniques that can be used against the combination punch, also I have seen Gozo Shioda, students teach defenses against teh above mentioned attack. When I was taught the defense against the attack I was told it is just a matter of timing once the attacker has comitted to hitting you, you need to block to the outside of the attackers jab and allow his hand retracting to pull you forward to the attacker where you can apply a kokyu-nage. but this is just a thought.

peace and love
tiger

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#126084 - 09/03/03 09:54 AM Re: Boxing and Aiki
csinca Offline
former moderator

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 672
Loc: Southern California
Tiger,

I've seen aikido dojo's practice similar techniques. My experience though is that most aikido dojo's don't work with someone that actually can throw a decent combination without giving up their balance.

Add to the mix a problem that my dojo is working through right now. We have historically known what the attack was going to be and then worked a technique from there. Historically, we would say "okay let's work off a jab today" and get busy. We finally realized that at some point you need to start learning to defend yourself when you don't know what the attack is, AND when the attack can be anything (punches, combinations, kicks, feints, takedowns...) AND the attacker has some skill in the above.

If some of you guys have already been through this and developed training methods, I'm looking forward to your responses!

Take care and good training

Chris

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