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#126005 - 10/14/04 01:30 PM Re: Is aikido street effective???
Anonymous
Unregistered


A BJJ person beat an Aikido person means nothing to me.

I know a TKD person whose hips were so flexible that he really suprised a BJJ person and ended up tapping the BJJ guy with a leg lock...

I also personally witnessed (a long while ago) a Goju Karate guy who having never seen BJJ before - instantly took an extremely wide stance (which is apparently a version of "sprawling") and proceeded to hit the BJJ person in the the groin.

I also have heard (from a credible source to me) that an aikido sensei was attacked by 3 BJJ people who could not get a sufficient hold of him to do anything until they gave up and got the message that they were never going to get a hold of him in a favorable way.

I know that a BJJ person who believed 100% that "pressure points don't work" make the mistake of laying on top of a friend who supported their weight using his elbow in the BJJ guy's solar plexus ... until he get so uncomfortable that he shifted - causing my friend to simply support the guy in the same place using the other elbow... My friend has really good skills, and he just kept using pressure points to weaken and get the BJJ guy to make semi-predictable movements which were all used against him tapping him out several times.

It always comes down to who is doing which art to what level of understanding. Maybe the BJJ folks in all of my examples were total bozos. Not my fault. Just like maybe the aikido sensei who lost to a BJJ person might have been a total bozo. This means nothing.

I am very interested in learning aikido really well and then testing out my understanding with BJJ folks. I don't think I can do much aikido from the ground - but I can hold my body in such a way that my muscles stay lengthened and widened. I can move my body primarily (and my arms secondarily). I often try to tackle my sempai. At present, I am most interested in how BJJ folks set up their shoot. This is where the aikido person should be studying - IMHO.

I think the people in this forum generally have their heads on straight. I totally agree that it is not generally practicle to take someone to the ground in a bar fight.

It seems that my opinion about JJ maybe a bit surface level. The only JJ I have ever seen was the first level that Ed decribed. I do think that if you have to hit someone to "soften them up" before you can apply your technique that your are NOT doing aikido. I also think that if your technique uses a lot of your body's joints to overload just a few (1, or 2, or maybe 3) of the other person's joints than you are doing jj not aikido. Shihonage ura makes the cleared distinction. If you grab the person's wrist with your hands, tenkan while putting your forehead to their elbow, and completely snap around you have just jj'd that person usign most of your joints against a couple of his. This is not aikido. I'd say that aikido requires that the other person is also involved with contributing to the movement.

Rob



[This message has been edited by rob_liberti (edited 11-18-2004).]

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#126006 - 10/14/04 02:07 PM Re: Is aikido street effective???
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5823
Loc: USA
Rob

That may be the best response to a hard question I have heard all month.

"Maybe their just bozos" (my paraphrase)

Goes either way, neat, clean, concise.

Classic.


[This message has been edited by cxt (edited 10-14-2004).]

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#126007 - 10/20/04 10:39 AM Re: Is aikido street effective???
Anonymous
Unregistered


By the way "the504mikey", may I have your permission to quote you? I'd give you credit for your words, but I don't know your real name. Please send me email if this is okay.

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#126008 - 12/16/04 08:54 PM Re: Is aikido street effective???
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by JohnL:
Hi dawgzog

I know you're new to the forum, but you've arrived in a number of different lists and bombarded people with questions like,

What is the most deadly art?
Is Tae Kwon do street effective?
What's the best MA for multiple attackers?
Is Aikido street effective?

It would appear that you have no knowledge of MA's whatsoever.

If you are in that much trouble that you need to ask these questions, go to the police.

Otherwise it's advisable to get some knowledge before you bombard people with questions that a total novice could answer.

JohnL

[/QUOTE]

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#126009 - 12/22/04 09:42 AM Re: Is aikido street effective???
Anonymous
Unregistered


It's not the system, it's the user. If you have the "killer instinct," you can make anything work for you. Concentrate on getting training that is most available to you and worry less about the type of system.

I've heard stories of guys who were excellent shots and really fast on the draw (so to speak), but when push came to shove, they didn't have the instinct to defend themselves and got their butts handed to them, and by less skilled individuals.

Work on the mental part of taking out the other guy first. Once you get that down, it won't matter how you do it.

Oh, and yes, there are no rules in combat self-defense. Cheat first, cheat last, cheat in the middle.

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#126010 - 12/24/04 09:07 PM Re: Is aikido street effective???
Anonymous
Unregistered


any martial art including Aikido is street effective. If the artist is effective.

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#126011 - 03/31/05 11:42 AM Re: Is aikido street effective???
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Cato:
I would say tat BJJ is about as authentic as American karate, if you get my meaning. that's not to say they don't work, just asking whether they can really be considered "authentic"[/QUOTE]

What really shocked (and delighted) the Japanese was just how authentic Gracie Jujutsu was when they first saw it. It was the evolution of the jujutsu that had been introduced to Brazil almost 100 years before.

In those days, in Japan, jujutsu competitions were fierce and usually violent. Teachers were competing to make their schools the best known and most highly respected so that they could teach the national police. No one wanted to lose and they fought like devils.

Over the following hundred years or so, the Japanese jujutsu became more and more stylized and less competitive, while the jujutsu developing in Brazil stayed very close to the old form, complete with severe competition.

When the Japanese saw this, they were both embarrassed and inspired. And then you had things like K-1, which really goes back to the old (authentic) fighting roots.

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#126012 - 03/31/05 11:53 AM Re: Is aikido street effective???
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by mugen:
If you think about it though, a truly accomplished Aikidoist should not end up on the ground in a choke by a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu practitioner, and if he does then he should know Kaeshi Waza, taught by Saito Sensei.[/QUOTE]

Usually, someone with judo background can beat an equally-ranked aikidoist. Judo players develop real balance and stability while MOST aikido players can maintain that only when the uke is non-resistant. It's not really a technical matter. Aiki should beat Ju, but experience always beats mere belief.



[This message has been edited by aikikiai (edited 03-31-2005).]

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#126013 - 04/01/05 01:36 AM Re: Is aikido street effective???
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by aikikiai:
Usually, someone with judo background can beat an equally-ranked aikidoist. Judo players develop real balance and stability while MOST aikido players can maintain that only when the uke is non-resistant. It's not really a technical matter. Aiki should beat Ju, but experience always beats mere belief.[QUOTE]

I don't agree fully with your statement. I myself am an aikidoka and my boyfriend is a judoka. For most of his techniques, he has to grab me. This is something aikido can exploit and I can deal with him although he can equally floor me when he is quick enough.

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