FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 43 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
old1, Leonar, ManLar, Vimido, raya
22925 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
futsaowingchun 4
Ronin1966 3
AndyLA 1
GojuRyuboy13 1
Matakiant 1
October
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
New Topics
The Classic Pak Sao drill
by futsaowingchun
Today at 10:32 AM
wing chun kicks and knees
by futsaowingchun
10/09/14 12:55 AM
2014 European Championships Juniors: the Gallery
by ergees
10/05/14 10:56 AM
Tan,Bong,Fuk & Wu Sao
by futsaowingchun
09/30/14 12:10 AM
Living a full life violence free...
by GojuRyuboy13
09/25/14 08:50 AM
Wing Chun-internal training
by futsaowingchun
09/23/14 09:01 PM
Martial News
by Matakiant
09/23/14 06:42 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Bartfast
08/05/14 04:18 PM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/30/13 07:41 AM
Leo's Judo Journal
by Leo_E_49
01/24/12 02:58 AM
Recent Posts
The Classic Pak Sao drill
by futsaowingchun
Today at 10:32 AM
Leo's Judo Journal
by swordy
10/11/14 09:21 AM
Living a full life violence free...
by cxt
10/10/14 10:08 AM
The Karate punch
by Ronin1966
10/09/14 03:16 PM
wing chun kicks and knees
by futsaowingchun
10/09/14 12:55 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Ronin1966
10/08/14 09:22 PM
2014 European Championships Juniors: the Gallery
by ergees
10/05/14 10:56 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by AndyLA
10/04/14 10:20 AM
Tan,Bong,Fuk & Wu Sao
by futsaowingchun
09/30/14 12:10 AM
Wing Chun-internal training
by futsaowingchun
09/23/14 09:01 PM
Forum Stats
22925 Members
36 Forums
35582 Topics
432509 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#125610 - 04/15/03 04:46 PM Re: different styles
Cato Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 1636
I may well be wrong (don't say it, Lou!!) but it seems to me that karateka invariably cross train. Is this because karate on it's own is inadequate?

Top
#125611 - 04/15/03 05:22 PM Re: different styles
raccoon Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 848
Loc: Victoria BC Canada
Cato> You are indeed wrong! I've train with many karateka who do not cross train, I also train with many aikidoka who do not cross train.

That said, I might even agree that karate on its own is inadequate... never mind, I might get killed for that u__u

Like I said in another thread, judge the person, not the art. I think many budoka nowadays do not fully realize the potential of their style. I am pretty sure aikido, as we practice it these days, fall short of what O'Sensei envision it to be, and his expectation of how it is to be practiced.

-raccoon

[This message has been edited by raccoon (edited 04-15-2003).]

Top
#125612 - 04/15/03 09:30 PM Re: different styles
joesixpack Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 2282
Loc: Australia
No cato, karate was a complete system - striking at all ranges, grappling, trapping, kyusho and torite and weapons.

But most of the info was lost, a way to recieve it again is to train in systems also influenced by Gongfu and Chin Na.

Top
#125613 - 04/15/03 09:32 PM Re: different styles
joesixpack Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 2282
Loc: Australia
No cato, karate was a complete system - striking at all ranges, grappling, trapping, kyusho and torite and weapons.

But most of the info was lost, a way to recieve it again is to train in systems also influenced by Gongfu and Chin Na.

Top
#125614 - 04/16/03 02:31 AM Re: different styles
senseilou Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2082
Loc: Glendale, Az.
hey Joe, I got it the first time, is your computer stuttering? LOL I have to find my amusement where I can. However once again Joe is right, karate is complete if you train with the right type of Sensei.Alot of the cross-training issue is a simple fact that many Sensei don't allow it. very rarely will you find a Shotokan student cross training, and that is true for several of the more traditional arts. karate-ka got a real lesson in the early 90's with the influx of BJJ, and I think alot of practioners went out to find a better grappling art then they had. Same with certain grappling arts prationers looking for a striking art.It really depends on what you want to focus on. if one would look at what I do, you would say thats not Okinawan karate, they are right, though my rank is in Shito and Shuri ryu, my approach to striking is more Hawaiian influenced because I believe it compliments my grappling and locking arts better. Once you have the basics, its easier to find a style more suited to you.

Top
#125615 - 04/16/03 04:05 AM Re: different styles
Cato Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 1636
So where did karate lose its way? How did this complete system become the sport that you see in most dojo these days?

I freely admit that aikido has lost its way big time, and I put that down to the changing nature of O'sensei throughout his life. He allowed his religion to pervade his art. Karate doesn't seem to have that same problem yet it has gone down a similar route. Why is that?

I'm also intrigued to learn what an Okinawan approach to striking is and how it differs from am Hawaiin approach or a Japanese or Chinese one.

Budo

Top
#125616 - 04/17/03 01:11 AM Re: different styles
senseilou Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2082
Loc: Glendale, Az.
Great points Cato, but I will tell you its really a tough question. My initial answer is there are 2 things that changed the face of Karate.
1. Money, Americans love to see money making opportunity in everything. Over here, restuarants go out of business all the time, and there are people everywhere who think they can open one, money money money. When we saw an old Japaneese man teaching in a dingy basement, we figure we can get a store fix it nice, and run a school. No matter of the quality, we offer the product
2. Everything is competition, so why not sport. Then you have personalities like Chuck Norris, Bob wall, Don Wilson who popularized the sport karate venue. So we find competition Karate, from forms to fighting. Trophies are impressive in your front window and it draws students. I lose prospective students all the time because we don't compete. No trophy, no student, very few people are interested in knowledge, all they want is rank, belts and trophies. so you find schools that change curriculum to address the students wants
We won't compete and everything we do is for gaining knowledge, and self improvement. to me competition breeds bad feelings and sloppy techniques. There are no pads or refs or the street, and points don't count, so we don't play. The other factor is that many 1st generation Sensei are dying off, we just lost a pioneer in Jujutsu, Duke Moore, who was instrumental in developing Jujutsu in the states. He introduced Jujutsu into colleges and clubs started to evolve. Its a real shame as I had plans to train with him in July. With the first generation disappearing, the 2nd generation didn't go through the same things that their Sensei did, and things get short cut and watered down.

As for the 'approach' to Karate or 'influence' of different styles. you need a history of Karate and I don't want to tie this up doing it. Basically there isn't any Japaneese Karate as it is a Okinawan style(Shorin) changed so that the Japaneese people would accept it. this style is Shotokan and is very linear. Japaneese Goju has a little more circular movement but not much. Most Okinawan Karate is angular, some styles with a little circular motion. Okinawan karate stresses the importance of strong blocking and countering techniques. when you watch Okinawan sparring you will virtually no circular movement. The Hawaiian influence is unique as you have Okinawan styles there and Kempo styles too. The arts really mixed in Hawaii due to everyone training with everyone. My Sensei was studying Judo when the Sensei's brother-in law came to the scholl and taught Kempo for a month, then left. this happened all the time, thats why you see Kempo-Jutsu and Kajukembo coming out of Hawaii. There also is Lua, Lima Lama, that are native arts. Hawaiian Karate, I think flows better than Okinawan Karate does, as one strikes sets up another and its easier I think going into joint locking. I prefer a pre-emptive strike or two before joint locking-throwing etc. The strikes of all Karate are basically the same, however the Hawaiian techniques flow better and are not as linear I think. Chineese karate-Kung Fu is related to the animal styles and each is unique, but you will see much more circular movement. I do not know much about Chineese systems except the Eagle Chin Na we study. Their low stances are killers on my old knees and back. Once again my opinion, once you have your basics down, its easier to find an approach you like, mine is more Lua, and Kempo Jutsu oriented

Top
#125617 - 04/17/03 08:38 AM Re: different styles
csinca Offline
former moderator

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 672
Loc: Southern California
Any chance that O'Sensei changed/evolved Aikido over the course of his teaching career? If so it would make sense that his students over the years were taught different things.

Add to that the fact that everyone brings unique perspectives, skills, and intentions to their training. My Tae Kwon Do experience will influence my Aikido and make it different than someone with no other martial art experience.

Lastly, I work out with a couple of very small women as well as a guy that is 6'8" and 300 pounds... There is no way a wide range of sizes is going to do the same technique the same way.

All of this is going to cause one persons interpretation of an art to be different than anyone else's.

Top
#125618 - 04/17/03 12:29 PM Re: different styles
Joe Jutsu Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/09/03
Posts: 575
Sensei Lou-

You seem to be quite the accomplished martial artist! For some reason, I'm assuming that you live in the States, and I was just wondering what region you live in, because if I ever find myself in that region I would very much like to observe a class and or train. Then again, I understand if you don't want to answer that question, I'd be skeptical about giving sensitive info out on the internet, especially in an anonymous forum such as this. But either way, I enjoyed reading about your path through the martial arts. When you studied Aikido, was it Aikikai? Thanks,
Joe.

Top
#125619 - 04/17/03 02:41 PM Re: different styles
senseilou Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2082
Loc: Glendale, Az.
Joe, I am in sunny Arizona and if you are ever here feel free to let me know. As far as my Aikido, I belonged to ASU, American schools of Ueshiba, with the arrogant, hateful Satome Sensei as its head. No wonder the school was loaded with ego maniacs, look at Satome himself. He thinks he's the recarnation of Uesheiba himself. Getting fed up with him, I briefly changed alliances to AAA, with Toyada Sensei who recently passed away. He was a warm, wonderful Sensei who really cared. I truly miss him. My AikiJujutsu was under Obata Sensei(of Shredder fame-ninja turtles you know)and Showdown in little Tokyo. The bald, small built like a tank Japaneese guy who fought Dolph Lundgren and Brandon Lee. I really don't remember the name of his organization though but he was associated with Ibarra Sensei(who I had the experience to be brutalized by) and Goldberg Sensei of New York. My Jujutsu style came from Kuniba Sensei who created Goshin Budo Jujutsu after training with Shioda Sensei in Japan(Aikido) and Takeda Sensei in Japan.(Jujutsu)

Top
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >


Moderator:  Ames, Cord, MattJ, Reiki 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Fight Videos
Night club fight footage and street fights captured with the world's first bouncer spy cam

How to Matrix!
Learn ten times faster with new training method. Learn entire arts for as little as $10 per disk.

Self Defense
Stun guns, pepper spray, Mace and self defense products. Alarms for personal and home use.

TASER MC26C
Stop An Urban Gorilla: Get 2 FREE TASER M26C Replacement Air Cartridges With Each New TASER M26C!

 

Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga