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#122178 - 10/20/04 09:56 PM Questions for Anti-Taekwondo?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I think most of you sawt his article.. but heres a little clip @ http://tkdtutor.com/02Taekwondo/BestArt.htm

So is grappling the best self-defense style for the street?

-What does a grappler do when attacked on stairs or on a subway or in knee deep snow or on a crowed street?
-What about an attacker with a knife or other concealed weapon? A person in a submission hold may not have an empty hand way of getting out of the hold, but a knife in the kidney will end the hold, and the holder. Thugs do not walk around with just one weapon. You may control the arm with the gun, but the other arm may pull a knife.
-When dragged into a broken glass filled alley, do you want to grapple on the ground?
-Do you want to get into a test of strength with an attacker who is high on psychoactive drugs.
-What does the grappler do when the attacker has a friend? Do you want to be on the ground holding an attacker, when his friend comes to his aid? While you are holding down one attacker, what will the other attacker be doing with your spouse?
-An attacker may not be able to escape from your hold-down, but he will bite and spit.
-If you are a law enforcement officer, do you want to grapple with a suspect and give him an opportunity to grab your firearm or other weapon.

Remember, a good grappler knows how to grapple, a great fighter knows when to grapple. Grapple when you have to, but on the street it is strategically safer and wiser to remain on your feet.

So what does an ordinary person do when attacked on the street, usually by a thug who has no rules and would just as soon kill you as not? Thugs do not grapple, they attack in the quickest, easiest way they can, usually with a weapon. In this case, you do what your art has trained you to do!

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#122179 - 10/21/04 07:07 AM Re: Questions for Anti-Taekwondo?
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Korean_Redneck:
I think most of you sawt his article.. but heres a little clip @ http://tkdtutor.com/02Taekwondo/BestArt.htm

So is grappling the best self-defense style for the street?

-What does a grappler do when attacked on stairs or on a subway or in knee deep snow or on a crowed street?
-What about an attacker with a knife or other concealed weapon? A person in a submission hold may not have an empty hand way of getting out of the hold, but a knife in the kidney will end the hold, and the holder. Thugs do not walk around with just one weapon. You may control the arm with the gun, but the other arm may pull a knife.
-When dragged into a broken glass filled alley, do you want to grapple on the ground?
-Do you want to get into a test of strength with an attacker who is high on psychoactive drugs.
-What does the grappler do when the attacker has a friend? Do you want to be on the ground holding an attacker, when his friend comes to his aid? While you are holding down one attacker, what will the other attacker be doing with your spouse?
-An attacker may not be able to escape from your hold-down, but he will bite and spit.
-If you are a law enforcement officer, do you want to grapple with a suspect and give him an opportunity to grab your firearm or other weapon.

Remember, a good grappler knows how to grapple, a great fighter knows when to grapple. Grapple when you have to, but on the street it is strategically safer and wiser to remain on your feet.

So what does an ordinary person do when attacked on the street, usually by a thug who has no rules and would just as soon kill you as not? Thugs do not grapple, they attack in the quickest, easiest way they can, usually with a weapon. In this case, you do what your art has trained you to do!

[/QUOTE]

What are TKD's answers to those various problems?

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#122180 - 10/21/04 07:54 AM Re: Questions for Anti-Taekwondo?
Anonymous
Unregistered


There is a need for grappling, there's no doubt about that, but I can't understand grappler's that want to take the fight to the ground as a priority.

I teach a combination of TKD (50%), Muay Thai (25%) and Judo (25%), taking what I consider to be the strongest points of each MA. What I appear to teach is an MMA, but with one very inportant distinction, that being the number one priority is to stay on your feet.

TKD is a great MA, and is a terrific base MA to add to, as in my opinion TKD has all the striking techniques you'll ever need.

The biggest problem is not what is taught in TKD, but the way in which TKD is taught.
Most TKD clubs teach TKD as a sport that may be used on the street with a little adaption to techniques and mindset.
In my opinion TKD should be taught as a sport, and more importantly, with a distinction that some techniques are best left in the Dojang, and not used on the street.
There should also be more emphasis on the techniques that can be used on the street and that do work, such as Chin-Jabs, Palm-Heels, Hooking Punches, Upper-cuts, Low Section Turning Kicks to the inner and outer thigh, and finally elbows.

I had a long chat with Grandmaster Hee Il Cho where we discussed TKD and street techniques. He told me that Muhammed Ali was his biggest influence and that TKD should incorporate boxing type training and mindset. He said that TKD needs to move with the times and cover all aspects of street combat, including some clinching/grappling - that was back in the early 90's!!!!

Grandmaster Cho explained how important cross training was to me, to which I agreed and still agree to this day.

TKD is in my opinion one of the best MA's to use as base, to which techniques, such as grappling, can be added to enhance TKD, rather conflict with it. With the addition of some of these basic techniques and with a street fighting mindset you have, in my opinion, the whole package.

The answer is cross training.

"It's not the dog in the fight, it's the fight in the dog!"

Take care,

Gaffer.


[This message has been edited by Gaffer (edited 10-21-2004).]

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#122181 - 10/21/04 11:21 AM Re: Questions for Anti-Taekwondo?
nekogami13 V2.0 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 2643
Loc: Texas, USA
Striking has it's place, grappling also has it's place.

Several things are misunderstood about grappling by those who do not know how to do it.
Grappling if done correctly should never be a strength contest. It is about leverage and balance. I would not want to trade shots with or grapple with someone high on something-doing either can lead to you getting very badly hurt.
Grappling is not about automaticaly flopping to the ground. The people who advocate this are just like the majority of the TKD crowd-sport guys. In a ring/octagon/dojo going to the ground makes perfect sense, if you know what to do there. In the street, not so much.
The "submissions" that you talk about are only submissions for training or sport purposes. Any "submission" hold can very easily be used as a break/joint destruction. It is only a matter of intent and amount of "snap" used.
Police officers have to grapple, unless they have a tazer. Beating a suspect into submission will only lead to lawsuits, loss of job, prison time for the officer, even more negative feelings toward the police.

Agree that the answer lies in knowing both.

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#122182 - 10/24/04 02:55 PM Re: Questions for Anti-Taekwondo?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hey,

I'm a grappler, puncher, elbower, kicker,groin grabber, eye poker, scratcher, and Mike Tyson ear biter. It doesn't matter which means of ending a fight that I use just as long as I'm still alive when the conflict is over.

The answer is simple No one art is the ultimate art in real combat! In order to be effective in a street fight, which actually is combat on a small scale, you must try and be prepared for any given situation and that includes ending up of your back because it's very likely. Just because someone has a black belt it doesn't make them super human or a dragon ballz character. Real people have to train in all four ranges of fighting inorder to be effective in real life because you never know the outcome of any fight. Don't limit yourself to the box of "style". Think realistic. What would you do if you were attacked and thrown to the ground? You can't kick or punch but you must grapple. And if your assalant has a knife, no matter how many disarms you know your going to get cut.

If you Train Hard and then you'll Fight hard!

The more sweat in practice the less blood in combat! (A warrior's mind set)

Sincerely,

Elbowko

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