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#121403 - 08/10/04 04:07 PM Re: why teakwondo consists of little grappling
Anonymous
Unregistered


goldencrane,
By the way, I think we are neighbors.

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#121404 - 08/11/04 02:04 AM Re: why teakwondo consists of little grappling
reaperblack Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/30/04
Posts: 558
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
grappling can be found in kalarypayutt which is one of the oldest martial arts. It has been practised in india for approximately 1000 years and it is where most modern styles descend from, via bhodydharma(sorry for the spelling) then china, then okinawa, Japan korea etc. Greco roman wresling has been around for hundreds of years and it is nothing but grappling. Any lock that can be performed standing can be done on the ground.

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#121405 - 08/11/04 02:43 PM Re: why teakwondo consists of little grappling
goldencrane Offline
Member

Registered: 02/23/04
Posts: 432
Loc: Kansas City Kansas USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by oldman:
goldencrane,
By the way, I think we are neighbors.
[/QUOTE]

Quite possibly [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

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#121406 - 08/11/04 02:44 PM Re: why teakwondo consists of little grappling
goldencrane Offline
Member

Registered: 02/23/04
Posts: 432
Loc: Kansas City Kansas USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by reaperblack:
grappling can be found in kalarypayutt which is one of the oldest martial arts. It has been practised in india for approximately 1000 years and it is where most modern styles descend from, via bhodydharma(sorry for the spelling) then china, then okinawa, Japan korea etc. Greco roman wresling has been around for hundreds of years and it is nothing but grappling. Any lock that can be performed standing can be done on the ground.[/QUOTE]
And your point is??????

The question is'nt were grappling came from but why TKD has very little if any in it!!!!

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#121407 - 08/12/04 01:05 PM Re: why teakwondo consists of little grappling
reaperblack Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/30/04
Posts: 558
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
my point was in reply to an earlier post that grappling was a relatively new art, which had only really came about thanks to bjj. There is little grappling in tkd because it is descended from okinawan karate, and the theory here is that when you grapple you take yourself out of the fight. Karate is only to be used against multiple opponents, when you grapple multiple opponents you get killed!!!

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#121408 - 08/12/04 01:13 PM Re: why teakwondo consists of little grappling
goldencrane Offline
Member

Registered: 02/23/04
Posts: 432
Loc: Kansas City Kansas USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by reaperblack:
my point was in reply to an earlier post that grappling was a relatively new art, which had only really came about thanks to bjj. There is little grappling in tkd because it is descended from okinawan karate, and the theory here is that when you grapple you take yourself out of the fight. Karate is only to be used against multiple opponents, when you grapple multiple opponents you get killed!!![/QUOTE]

"Karate is only supposed to be used against mulitple opponents"???? [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/confused.gif[/IMG]

Okinawain Karate does have grappling in it. And TKD does aswell, It just is'nt taught. Take any Kata/Form and you will find plenty of grappling techniques!!!

But back to the original reason for my retort, If Karate is "ONLY" supposed to be used against multiple attackers, What are you supposed to do when it a conflict between 1 on 1 ?????

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#121409 - 08/12/04 02:05 PM Re: why teakwondo consists of little grappling
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5823
Loc: USA
Reaper

I don't get it.

How can you say in your last post.

"grappling is a relitivly new art which only really came about thanks to bjj"

When in you previous post you established grappling as being 1000s of years old in the Indian tradiitons and many 100s of years old in Greco-Roman?

See, thats a couple of major contardictions.

If grappling only came about "thanks to the gracies"

Then how can it be 1000 years old?

Do the Gracies have a time machine?

Is grappling very old OR is it "new"

Can't have it both ways.

And then what has any of that to do with the question at hand?

Like I said, just don't get it.

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#121410 - 08/13/04 09:10 PM Re: why teakwondo consists of little grappling
reaperblack Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/30/04
Posts: 558
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
I wasn't saying that grappling was new, I was replying to a statement that someone else had made that grappling was new. Karate is designed for multiple opponents and against a single opponent you are only supposed to pary and sidestep. If you are any good at Karate you should be able to counter any attack with only a pary. Providing that you have been learning a traditional style which contains the shorin triangle, I am sure that it has other names in other styles, but shorin ryu is the only style of karate that I have ever done. At least for more than a class, which would have ended in laughter. Any attack from a single opponent can be avoided. Multiple attackers must be removed from the conflict. This is where the "one strike one kill" idea, this doesn't neccesarily mean a "kill", it can be a limb destruction or KO. The movements in kata that you are referring to that can be applyed to grappling, can indeed be applyed to grappling, after all the only difference between stand and fighting and laying down is where the ground is. As I said before though that is not what these techniques where designed for. If you take those locks and pressure points that you can find in kata and apply them with the right stance, they are not locks anymore they are destructions. This of course depends on the style that you do and how much the kata have been altered from their original form.
What I am trying to say is that, as someone who used to think that grappling was the be all and end all of every fight, I can now tell you that it isn't. If you have a good foundation in locks, and pressure points, and your stances are good, you never need to grapple. Think about being in the middle of a battlefield, now imagine rolling around on the ground with an opponent while thousands of other men try to kill each other. you figure it out.
Ps I apologize if this message seems sarcastic, it wasn't meant to be
Reaper
One other thing the idea of parrying and stepping aside has been passed down in karate for at almost 100 years and is the first of ten statements made by Anko Itosu in 1908. In case you don't know who Itosu is he is responsible for the invention of the corkscrew punch, the pinan kata, and the division of both kusanku(kushanku) and Passai(bassai). This is also the same line as Funokoshi Gichin comes from, which is where shotokan karate comes from, which is where tkd comes from.
[This message has been edited by reaperblack (edited 08-13-2004).]

[This message has been edited by reaperblack (edited 08-14-2004).]

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#121411 - 08/15/04 06:47 PM Re: why teakwondo consists of little grappling
Anonymous
Unregistered


hi everyone if you would like to read some or see some grappling in tae kwon do such as armbars master richard chun wrote a book on tae kwon do in 1970 and it is a picture of what some tae kwon do had at that time.The book is called tae kwon do the korean martial art .

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#121412 - 09/06/04 09:02 AM Re: why teakwondo consists of little grappling
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by schanne:
Grapplin wasn't popular until Gracie brought it her a few years back in the UFC.[/QUOTE]

IF YOU WERE LET'S JUST SAY 120 LBS AND YOUR ATTACKER WAS SAY 350 LB FOOTBALL PLAYER WITH COMING AT YOU FOR THE KILL SHOULD YOU GRAPPLE
NO, NO, NO
KICKING AND PUNCHING IS THE WAY TO GO
WHAT ARE THE ELEMENTS THAT MAKES UP POWER

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