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#121383 - 07/05/04 03:30 PM Re: why teakwondo consists of little grappling
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hajume! Sijak!
No, here's the skinny. TKD began back in the sixth century AD. It began as a means of fighting for the Hwa Rang (warrior corps). The style was then called Soo Bak of Ta Kyon, or simply Hwa Rang Do (there is a form named this often performed for black belt in TKD) Hwa Rang Do still exists in some form today. Anyway, this was practiced to protect the Korean king, who was often threatened by the Chinese and later the Japanese. The invading forces were often better fitted for battle, and on horse-back. So, jumping and flying kicks were developed to knock these guys off their mounts and such. This being a military system, time was of the essence, so grappling usually didn't take place. You see, while you wrestle with one person, another would stroll by and whack your head off! So, contrary to popular belief, TKD did not originate as a sport, it was very much a martial art, and one of the oldest. You see, most martial arts have a foundation in jiu jitsu, but this took place in Japan, which was very much a closed society at this time. TKD originated separately from the grappling arts. It was designed eventually to be a kicking and punching art, hence the name: tae (foot), kwon (fist), do (way). It was from 1909-1945, during japanese occupation that TKD began to branch into the sport world. Koreans were banned from practicing TKD at this time. The system split into sport and combative styles. Tang Soo Do became known as the combative style of TKD, and tae kwon do became known as the sport system. There were originally 7 kwans (styles) of TKD, when it originated in 1955 with General Choi. Only one style kept the TKD name, but remained combative (Jung Moo Kwan). At this point, TKD still was in pure form, thus having incorporated no grappling. Kicks, punches, hyungs, sparring (began in 60s-70s), board breaking, and one step spar are the hallmark of TKD. it is a hard style, thus relys on one hard kick or punch to end a fight, just as Shotokan Karate, Yoshukai Karate, or any other hard style. Today, pure TKD does not oncorporate grabs, breakfalls, throws, and grappling. Yes, you may train in a TKD school that teaches you these things, but that is because an instructor has seen the need for those techniques and has adapted the system to incorporate those techniques. Hapkido did originally serve some of this purpose in Korea, but today because of mass media and that we live in such a global society, many schools are trying to become as complete a system as they can. They do this by adapting the most effective techniques of any system to theirs. Find a school that does this well, while still has a good core of TKD or some other art is my advice.

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#121384 - 07/05/04 10:47 PM Re: why teakwondo consists of little grappling
Anonymous
Unregistered


Sorry Slayr, your "research" is so way off base it's not even funny...

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#121385 - 07/05/04 11:19 PM Re: why teakwondo consists of little grappling
Anonymous
Unregistered


Um, and you are? Thats okay, you assume I have trained only for mere months I am sure.

I do know a few things about this issue and have several sources. Lets not make accusations.

Consult these references and report back: Tae Kwon Do by General Choi Hong Hi, Tae Kwon Do by Yeon Hee Park, Yeon Hwan Park, and Jon Gerrard, or Moo Duk Kwan Tae Kwon Do by Richard Chun just to start. Let me know if you need any morereference material. i will be happy to supply it.

[This message has been edited by Slayr (edited 07-06-2004).]

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#121386 - 07/06/04 11:04 PM Re: why teakwondo consists of little grappling
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Slayr:
Um, and you are?[/QUOTE]

Somebody who doesn't follow the "sensei says" school of research. And I don't make any assumptions about your training. I've heard the same BS on TKD history from guys who have trained in the style all their lives.

The sources you quote are little more than Korean nationalist propaganda. I'd suggest looking at the articles of Dakin Burdick, Robert Dohrenwend, John Hancock, Eric Madis, Stanley Henning, and Manuel Adrogue to name but a few. Might cause you to question the grand ultimate poobahs of TKD and their "historical" research.

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#121387 - 07/07/04 12:12 AM Re: why teakwondo consists of little grappling
Uriel Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 764
History, as they say, is written by the victors.

Or was it a joke played on the dead by the living?

Your pick.

One history is korean propeganda. The other is japanese propeganda. Just depends on your appetite.

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#121388 - 07/07/04 01:03 AM Re: why teakwondo consists of little grappling
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Uriel:
One history is korean propeganda. The other is japanese propeganda.[/QUOTE]

Maybe, but since the "Japanese propaganda" has generally been written by non-Japanese practitioners of Korean martial arts who have provided evidence to back up their assertions, as opposed to the Korean nationalist approach of repeating folk tales, it should seem obvious which is the more intelligent, unbiased and believable theory.

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#121389 - 07/07/04 01:09 AM Re: why teakwondo consists of little grappling
Uriel Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 764
neither are believable.

good god, where is andy kaufman when you need him?

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#121390 - 07/07/04 02:09 AM Re: why teakwondo consists of little grappling
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Uriel:
neither are believable.

good god, where is andy kaufman when you need him?
[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure how you work that one out. I'd personally take the Korean story over TKD appearing out of thin air. And I don't see how a dead, second-rate comedian has anything to do with it either. But, I'm willing to listen. Please, enlighten us.

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#121391 - 07/07/04 11:53 AM Re: why teakwondo consists of little grappling
Anonymous
Unregistered


Abraxas, I teach history, have a degree in it and am well aware of biases. There are never any stories in history that are free of biases. Unless you are 1300 years old, then you do not know the "facts" any more than anyone else. I am, by the way, not a TKD loyalist. I think it has its place in training, but it is not by any means the Mecca of all arts. For the record, my teacher has nothing to do with my knowledge of the past. I am not a yes-man to him. He taught me to question everything.

Yes, you are making assumptions to the fact that I have not trained my whole life and that you are more knowledgeable than the rest of us. Look, I am just a humble martial artist trying to lend a helping hand to other students while cenversing with seasoned martial artists about whatever topics I can. I think that this is what martial arts is about. However, I think that putting down other people and their training is not what martial arts is about. this forum should be a place of respect, just as the dojo/dojang. When you relate to things that others say as BS, you are only revealing the fact of how little you truly know about the martial arts. This is just my opinion as a humble lifelong martial arts student.

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#121392 - 07/07/04 11:58 AM Re: why teakwondo consists of little grappling
Uriel Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 764
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Abraxas:
I'm not sure how you work that one out. I'd personally take the Korean story over TKD appearing out of thin air. And I don't see how a dead, second-rate comedian has anything to do with it either. But, I'm willing to listen. Please, enlighten us.[/QUOTE]


Awww..did I upset you? I'm sowwy...

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