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#120659 - 05/03/04 04:05 PM Re: Why is ATA so bad?
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5822
Loc: USA
Since the ATA are a national chain with 100s (at least) of schools I would expect the training and teaching standards to vary greatly from school to school.

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#120660 - 05/03/04 07:41 PM Re: Why is ATA so bad?
Uriel Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 764
Screw it. I was never one to make friends. Like my friend that I did make said once...

"we'll burn that bridge when we get there."

Since you seem to be pushing for an "Yes ATA blows" answer...

Far be it from me to let you down.

Yes, the ATA is the McDojang of McDojangs (in general). Your style is a franchise and nothing more. Your "national" champions are champions only because they don't invite other organizations to join. Even then your sparring is just tag.

MOST ATA schools have a guarunteed black belt program.

MOST of them are great for one thing...

Babysitting.

With that all said remember the #1 rule...JUST HAVE FUN

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#120661 - 05/05/04 03:03 AM Re: Why is ATA so bad?
TKD info Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/04
Posts: 56
[QUOTE]Originally posted by JohnL:
You do not need to tell any perp that you are a blackbelt, nor do you have to register your hands/feet as lethal weapons.

You're talking total garbage.

JohnL

[/QUOTE]

John you seem to disagree with what I said. I think you might want to look into your local laws before judging my advice.

By law there are 3 level of force that is applied when defending oneself. 1st is controlled force which would allow for the judge not to convict you on a basis that you set the fight where your opponent was either held down or striked with an exceptional stun. Otherwise you will be convicted of the 2nd law of force, excessive force, in which your perp grabs your wrist, you turn and strike the perp in which he lets go of your wrist and grabs his face or crotch, but then, you continue to kick or strike him repeatedly 3/4/5 or more times. (minimal 30 days in jail no community service). The last but well known least used deadly force, only allowed when the perp has endangered your life by carrying a weapon.

Just as a note, if at any point your opponent retreats in any way and you continue to strike your opponent, expect to be sued and maybe (depending on judge) you will introducing your self to the pit crew in the holding cell. So as far as garbage, don't think so,My friend is a Martial Arts Lawyer, please check his website out http://karatelaw.com/martialarts.html. This may open you guys eyes more. He has defended so many black belts it is just so unbelievable, and John you maybe one of them soon with your narrow mindedness. Just remember you heard it from me first, advising you about the law. Remember, we may enjoy all of those striking, kicking, and choking aspect of martial arts, but when you injure someone, regardless of being attacked or just doing dumb stuff, you can be taken to court. Remember we live in the U.S.

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#120662 - 05/05/04 03:04 AM Re: Why is ATA so bad?
TKD info Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/04
Posts: 56
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Uriel:
Not sure if this went through the first time or not but..

John is correct. I didn't read it before otherwise I would have said it...

garbage...pure garbage.

That's the stuff that people believe that will get you killed or laughed at hysterically.
[/QUOTE]


Uriel, you don't know much about the law, so please look it up and maybe you might want to ask a counselor, if it were to happen.

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#120663 - 05/05/04 09:50 AM Re: Why is ATA so bad?
JohnL Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 4309
Loc: NY, NY, USA
Hi TKD info:

The link you gave didn't go anywhere. Is it typed right.

I went to www.karatelaw.com where a Mr Kaufman has a site. He says he's a Martial Artist amd lawyer and offers services with regards to MA and the law. Is this the site you meant?

On that site there is no mention whatsoever of registering your hands/feet as lethal weapons.

Further, your comments onthe use of force are put forward as fact when you have used nothing to back them up. With my (admittedly limited) experience of the law, things are not black or white and to set things out as such is to give a false impression.

If you stand and stomp on a guys head for a while, yes you're going to jail. But not because you're a martial artist.

JohnL

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#120664 - 05/05/04 11:10 AM Re: Why is ATA so bad?
Uriel Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 764
[QUOTE]Originally posted by TKD info:

Uriel, you don't know much about the law, so please look it up and maybe you might want to ask a counselor, if it were to happen.
[/QUOTE]

I don't know much about the law? Hmmmmm...how wrong that is. I wish you well in whatever fantasy world you live in man.

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#120665 - 05/05/04 03:15 PM Re: Why is ATA so bad?
Applepie Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/30/04
Posts: 12
and uh... the issue isn't really about the law... John is saying that you really wouldn't have the skills/power that a real blackbelt would have if you came from a McDojang.

okay, I'll just have fun at my martial arts dancing. kam sah hae yo. *kisses you all*

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#120666 - 05/05/04 05:00 PM Re: Why is ATA so bad?
JohnL Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 4309
Loc: NY, NY, USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Applepie:
and uh... the issue isn't really about the law... John is saying that you really wouldn't have the skills/power that a real blackbelt would have if you came from a McDojang.

okay, I'll just have fun at my martial arts dancing. kam sah hae yo. *kisses you all*
[/QUOTE]

Hey Applepie

If you're refering to my posts, I said nothing about the guys abilities and where he trained. I am questioning the advice he is giving regarding the law.

JohnL

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#120667 - 05/05/04 05:12 PM Re: Why is ATA so bad?
Uriel Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 764
In re to blackbelts and lethal weapons...

In japan they had to register so people knew who was a real black belt or not.

In the US this is not so.

In fact..
http://www.tafkac.org/faq2k/legal_2007.html

Check it out. Read it...

It deals with both not having to register yourself and excessive force.

Now anyone wishes to discuss this further, please feel free to start a new topic. I would be interested in knowing any statute or case that dealt with registering as a weapon and the such.

Remember, I can back up what I post about the law...can you?

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#120668 - 05/06/04 02:22 AM Re: Why is ATA so bad?
TKD info Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/04
Posts: 56
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Uriel:
In re to blackbelts and lethal weapons...

In japan they had to register so people knew who was a real black belt or not.

In the US this is not so.

In fact..
http://www.tafkac.org/faq2k/legal_2007.html

Check it out. Read it...

It deals with both not having to register yourself and excessive force.

Now anyone wishes to discuss this further, please feel free to start a new topic. I would be interested in knowing any statute or case that dealt with registering as a weapon and the such.

Remember, I can back up what I post about the law...can you?
[/QUOTE]

Urial, I prefer to spell it my way as you can do whatever you want with mine, since you are so ignorant minded.

In regards to registering your hands as a lethal weapon, no you do not need to do that as I never mentioned that you have to go to the local police station to register your hands or feet. NO, i never said that, what I meant was, if a person did however get into a fight, the person knowing self defense has to realize the potential danger that may come out of a situation. Again, in regards to the McDojangs and the McMartial Artists with their fake black belts, most of them seem as though they can just walk out with their heads up high and then look for a fight without realizing the consequences behind it. Which I was stating on the law. You may know the law, but, doesn't you have been to a trial as things don't just fall in your lap as you hoped it did. So please realize the importance that regardless of defending yourself, it will all depend on the outcome of the defense. Again, witness to this experience and crime, a perp grabs a fanny pack from a purse, the husband stops him by grabbing his jacket then doing a judo leg trip (tai toshi) the guy falls then doubles over to the side. Well that was control force, until he literally mounted the guy then started to beat him, excessive force. Big difference, now do you see my point. Again, we may know and enjoy what we learn, but when it comes down to the law we have to be in control at all times, depending on the attack.

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