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#120146 - 11/24/03 03:10 PM Myths about point sparring
kiwi Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/26/03
Posts: 789
Loc: Wellington New Zealand
Just want to expose soe myths about ITF TKD point sparring.

No punches to the head. Perfectly legal, as long as there not to the back of the head.

Touch contact. At a senior level, absessive contact only occurs when you hit somone very hard in an illegal area e.g. In a recent fight i got called twice for this, as my opponent was running out of the corner I chased him and stuck him several times in the back of the head (don't tink much in the ring). I have seen knockouts not called obsessive contact because they were totally legal shots.

Punches don't work. I recently won a fight, and my entire strategy was to keep at bay scoring a few kciks to the head region, when he became careless I would run in and punch, until he was pushed out of the ring or knocked over. This is a very comon strategy, used by a lot of top ITF point sparrers.

anyone else want to share soem stories about tornament or expose some more isconceptions about point sparring?

[This message has been edited by kiwi (edited 11-24-2003).]

[This message has been edited by kiwi (edited 11-24-2003).]

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#120147 - 11/25/03 08:47 AM Re: Myths about point sparring
Big Bear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/15/03
Posts: 1068
Loc: Northern Ireland
This isn't point stop sparrig is it Kiwi?

You know when you hit the other person then you go back to the middle? It doesn't sound like it.

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#120148 - 11/25/03 10:58 AM Re: Myths about point sparring
JohnL Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 4309
Loc: NY, NY, USA
Hi Kiwi

Just thought I'd try and add a bit of more precise info on TKD sparring.

POINT AWARDS
A. One (1) point will be awarded for: Hand attack directed to mid or high section, hand attack while in air (both feet must be off the ground) directed to mid section, foot attack directed to mid section, perfect block.
B. Two (2) points will be awarded for: Foot attack directed to high section, hand attack while in air (both feet must be off the ground) directed to high section, jumping or flying kick directed to mid section.
C. Three (3) points will be awarded for: Jumping or flying kick directed to high section.

Article 35. SCORING PROCEDURE
In competition a technique is valid when:
A. it is executed correctly,
B. it is dynamic, that is to say it is delivered with strength, purpose, rapidity and precision,
C. it is controlled on the target,
D. perfect block:
i.) defender must maintain complete balance,
ii.) an appropriate blocking tool must be used,
iii.) block must be powerful and accurate,
iv.) defence must be maintained at a proper distance,
v.) opponents balance must be broken.

Article 36. DISQUALIFICATION
A. Misconduct against officials or ignoring instructions.
B. Heavy contact.
C. Committing 3 fouls.
D. Any competitor suspected of being under influence of alcoholic beverages or drugs.

Article 37. FOULS
One point will be deducted for the following offences:
A. Loss of temper,
B. insulting an opponent in any way,
C. biting/scratching/clawing,
D. attacking with the knee, elbow or forehead,
E. attacking a fallen opponent,
F. contact.
NB. The sum of 3 warnings automatically means deducting 1 point.

It's interesting that TKD's rules have led to the over use of feet and under use of hands. In addition as no sweeping is allowed it has developed into people hopping around on one leg.

Contact is considered a foul and heavy contact is cause for disqualification.

JohnL

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#120149 - 11/25/03 02:08 PM Re: Myths about point sparring
kiwi Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/26/03
Posts: 789
Loc: Wellington New Zealand
You need to go into some TKD point sparring copetitions. Nowadays (and I can't speak fo all organisations) at senior levels you either have to throw a haymaker (not a TKD technique) or strike the opponent hard in an illegal area. I have been in many point sparring competitions, and at a senior level (doesn't apply for the kiddies), hese are the only ways i've seen points deducted for heavy contact.

Where the hell did you get those rules from JOhn?. Contact a foul (that means touching the opponent). Thats not points sparring thats no contact sparring.

Got to go to school will post the real rules up in about seven hours.

Heavy contact is foul and results in the loss of one point, and as I've said the only way you are going to be called for heavy contact in the senior divisions is to do what i've said above.

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#120150 - 11/25/03 03:18 PM Re: Myths about point sparring
JohnL Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 4309
Loc: NY, NY, USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by kiwi:
You need to go into some TKD point sparring copetitions. Nowadays (and I can't speak fo all organisations) at senior levels you either have to throw a haymaker (not a TKD technique) or strike the opponent hard in an illegal area. I have been in many point sparring competitions, and at a senior level (doesn't apply for the kiddies), hese are the only ways i've seen points deducted for heavy contact.

Where the hell did you get those rules from JOhn?. Contact a foul (that means touching the opponent). Thats not points sparring thats no contact sparring.

Got to go to school will post the real rules up in about seven hours.

Heavy contact is foul and results in the loss of one point, and as I've said the only way you are going to be called for heavy contact in the senior divisions is to do what i've said above.
[/QUOTE]

As in one of your earlier posts (Agism thread) you said you did ITF Taekwondo, I copied the rules from the ITF site.

Apparently these are your own rules but you don't know anything about them.

JohnL

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#120151 - 11/25/03 08:54 PM Re: Myths about point sparring
kiwi Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/26/03
Posts: 789
Loc: Wellington New Zealand
John, this is once again a problem caused by the fracturing of ITF. anyway here are the rules I downloaded from www.itftaekwondo.com.

Warnings:
Warnings may be issued by the referee under the following circumstances;
1. Attack to an illegal target
2. Stepping completely out of the ring with both feet
3. Falling down, whether it be intentional or not
4. Holding / Grabbing / Pushing
5. Sweeping
6. Intentionally avoiding sparring
7. Pretending to be hurt
8. Turning your back to your opponent
9. Uncontrolled technique
10. Talking during the bout

Deduction of Points: For any three warnings that you receive, one point will be deducted, cumulative across the rounds

Fouls:
A foul will be given for any of the following offences;
1. Attacking a fallen opponent
2. Head butting, biting, scratching or clawing
3. Intentional attack after the stop of the bout
4. Making insulting remarks or gestures during the bout
5. Using the knee, elbow or forearm as an attacking tool
6. Excessive contact continuously.

Disqualifications:
Disqualification of a contestant will occur when;
1. Three fouls are awarded against a contestant during the contest.
2. The opponent is unable to continue due to illegal or excessive contact
3. The contestant disobeys the referee
4. The contestant leaves the ring before the announcement of the result
5. The contestant does not report to the ring marshal when called before the bout
6. Any contestant that enters the ring without all of the required safety protection, or where the equipment is not in good repair. A three minute time limit is awarded
7. Any contestant who fails an eight or ten count not due to an illegal or excessive attack
8. Any contestant who is unable to continue with the bout, or unable to defend themselves adequately as determined by the referee. The result will be awarded to the opponent
9. Any competitor suspected of being under the influence of alcohol or illegal substances
10. Any competitor who is deemed dangerous to the other competitor and highly likely to cause serious injury.

Anyway as I've said earlier despite competing in three national level competitions (and numerous regional and state). I've only seen people called for hitting to hard when its to an illegal area, not a TKD technique ,or kids are sparring (by kids I mean persons under twelve).

The knockout I saw was a back kick directly to the chin (first time ive ever seen this happen). As there was obviously no malicious intent and the technique was completely legal, he was not disqualified (even if there had been, the person managed to get up before the eight count, so he would not have been disqualified).

The reason I posted this is a lot of people such as yourself read a set of rules and think they can base there opinions on point sparring around that.


[This message has been edited by kiwi (edited 11-25-2003).]

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#120152 - 11/25/03 09:07 PM Re: Myths about point sparring
kiwi Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/26/03
Posts: 789
Loc: Wellington New Zealand
The overuse of feet an underuse of hands occurs in Olympic and WTF style TKD, because no hands are allowed to the face. hoping around the ring throwing side kicks does not work, I've never seen even a reasonable point sparrer do this. It's simple I can walk back faster then someone can hop after me thrwoing a side kick. Also this expends more energy then just walking backwards.

I would have to say that hands andd feet are used about equally in ITF sparring. This is simply because at close range hands are so much quicker. However kicks are much easier for all the judges to see and can be used at long range.

[This message has been edited by kiwi (edited 11-25-2003).]

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#120153 - 11/25/03 10:14 PM Re: Myths about point sparring
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Do you guys use those big chest and rib protectors that I always see tae kwon do guys wearing when they fight. If so, why?

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#120154 - 11/25/03 10:32 PM Re: Myths about point sparring
kiwi Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/26/03
Posts: 789
Loc: Wellington New Zealand
The answer ot both big bear and medulanets quetions is no.

We are required to wear only gloves and foot padding (and of course groin and mouth guards). some people wear shin guards, however the majority do not.

Again we have ITF point sparring being confused with WTF and olympic.

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#120155 - 11/26/03 07:22 AM Re: Myths about point sparring
JohnL Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 4309
Loc: NY, NY, USA
Hi kiwi:

Yes it can be difficult to tell the difference between ITF TKD and ITF TKD. Clearly not to be confused with ITF TKD [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]

However you seem to have posted your views on your ITF TKD in an attempt to show how "hard" your point sparring is.

I followed your link to your ITF TKD site and copied their rules for point sparring, these are as below;

Awards.

Awards are given as points when you score a successful attack to a legal scoring area. Awards can be given out a 1 point, 2 points, or 3 points. Technically, to score a point you don't have to hit your opponent but to come within one to two inches of a scoring area. However at some tournaments, judges may not score this, so it is better to make controlled contact on the target.

ITF Point Scoring

1 point score

Foot attack to the middle section.

Hand attack to High/Middle section


2 points score

Foot attack to the High section

Mid-air hand attack to the High Section

Mid-air foot attack to the Middle section



3 Point Score

Mid-air foot attack to the High Section.


All sounds like pretty standard TKD rules to me. Your description of the contact allowed is clearly outside the rules of your association. I'm amazed that you haven't been thrown out of your association yet.

JohnL

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