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#119730 - 08/31/03 11:27 PM High kicks- why bother?
Colly Offline
Member

Registered: 08/27/03
Posts: 66
I was curious as to why we even bother with high kicks? In most sparring head shots are illegal and, from what I've read, you all pretty much agree that high kicks are useless in a street fight. So except as flexibility increasing exercises, exactly what are they good for?

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#119731 - 09/01/03 03:48 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
kempo_jujitsu Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/03
Posts: 1914
Loc: illinois, usa
balance.
if you can do high kicks well...then you can do even better low kicks.
just good exercise.

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#119732 - 09/01/03 04:40 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
kiwi Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/26/03
Posts: 789
Loc: Wellington New Zealand
In some sparring (not the majority) hand shots to the head are illegal (I don't think ive ever heard of head kicks being illegal).

Head kicks are not useless in a street fight. Go to www.geoffthompson.com (thanks guys for showing me this great site) and read the free chapter of watch my back. A head kick was used (with steel caps) and pretty much finished off the opponent straight away. Head kicks can be used in a street fight as long as thir is adequate space and you are at adequate range.

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#119733 - 09/01/03 01:13 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Yoseikan Student Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/02/03
Posts: 1166
Loc: UK
'Cos you can look flash and they are bloody good fun.

[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

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#119734 - 09/01/03 01:23 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Colly Offline
Member

Registered: 08/27/03
Posts: 66
Ok, but when should you ever use a high kick as an alternative to a body shot?

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#119735 - 09/01/03 01:53 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Big Bear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/15/03
Posts: 1068
Loc: Northern Ireland
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Colly:
Ok, but when should you ever use a high kick as an alternative to a body shot?[/QUOTE]

Colly, you would very rarely use a high kick instead of a body shot in a street altercation. If you miss a punch, you leave yourself open but you can still pull your guard up very quickly. If you miss a kick there is so much that can go wrong. You may be off balance, you could slip (depending on the surface), the opponenet could rush you and cause you to fall, the opponent could catch your leg (unlikely but a possibility), the list goes on.

More experienced fighters will go into more detail i am sure.Colly Before you think that i'm bashing kicking as an art, i must tell you that i study tae kwon do, but as Kempo_jujitsu pointed out, high kicking in the dojang helps develope your low kicks as well (but there isn't anything better than improving your low kicks than low kicking).

Big Bear

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#119736 - 09/01/03 01:56 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Colly Offline
Member

Registered: 08/27/03
Posts: 66
Incidentally, thanks for recommending the sie Kiwi. I ordered the book immediately after reading the chapter.

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#119737 - 09/01/03 02:02 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Colly Offline
Member

Registered: 08/27/03
Posts: 66
Big Bear: "Colly, you would very rarely use a high kick instead of a body shot in a street altercation"

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#119738 - 09/01/03 02:05 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Colly Offline
Member

Registered: 08/27/03
Posts: 66
So when would you use it, and what is the point of practising it as an alternative to low kicks? I'm not trying to be vindictive or argumentative mind you, i'm just curious.

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#119739 - 09/01/03 03:04 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
kempo_jujitsu Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/03
Posts: 1914
Loc: illinois, usa
head kicks are great!.........after you knock them down....you stomp on their head.
or maybe after you daze them enough, but even then there are techniques i think are better suited.

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#119740 - 09/01/03 03:41 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Rand Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/03
Posts: 338
it depends on your body type


say some one is very tall
they will have longer legs
that would make a higher kick easier than someone who is shorter with shorter legs

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#119741 - 09/01/03 04:41 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Big Bear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/15/03
Posts: 1068
Loc: Northern Ireland
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Colly:
So when would you use it, and what is the point of practising it as an alternative to low kicks? I'm not trying to be vindictive or argumentative mind you, i'm just curious.[/QUOTE]

No problem Colly, i understand where you are coming from. All i can say is you might just need it some day. You could finish a fight with an axe kick-if you winded your opponent. If someone is weilding a knife, with blade turned up, and you have no eans of escape, a cresent kick may suffice (this may sound like idealistic training but it's something i practice with the "knife weilder" holding a stick with a punching glove to protect his hand-the reason i practice this is tht before i took up any other matial art, i didn't know any knife defenses and was told that this was a use for a cresent kick-out of habit i still practice it but i'm not sure how confident i am with it-seems very hollywood to be honest.

I don't think i wold ever choose a high kick as a 1st line of defense but you never know the situation, it might be of use someday and that is why i practise it.

Big Bear

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#119742 - 09/01/03 05:23 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Isshin Dude Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/03
Posts: 480
Loc: Knoxville Tennessee U.S.A
Hey colly, Whoever says, that you can use highkicks on the street does'nt know what he/she is talking about. It would be better to use low kicks,In other words< there should be no kicks above the waste. Lowkicks allow you to move swiftly,& With better ballance,& Power. PS Maybe in a utopian world highkicks would work,But in the real world,Where it's not just the guy in front of you ,But his friends you've to worry about,& low rapid kick rapid kicks will enable you to move more freely. =============================================Regards Sensei Rhodes

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#119743 - 09/01/03 06:59 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Colly Offline
Member

Registered: 08/27/03
Posts: 66
I still want clarification on my original question, but as an aside- if you are in a street fight and your opponent is wielding a knife the best style is to bail. Knife defense is based on predicting and in my opinion you just can't predict what a person willing to stab a man is going to do.

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#119744 - 09/02/03 12:57 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
kiwi Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/26/03
Posts: 789
Loc: Wellington New Zealand
Yea colly it's a great site.

Big Bear

A major artery runs thorugh your leg. If youu get cut you will alomst certainly suffer severe blood loss or maybe even die. Frankly you better of getting stabbed in the gut.

Ishinn

So Geoff Thompson, a former bouncer, who has used a high kick in a fight, does not know what he is talking. Thsi guy is one of the most experienced street fighters in the world. Sorry mate but I'm going to take hsi word over yours.

P.S I'm not saying that high kicks should be used all the time, I'm just saying that they can be used and can be effective.

[This message has been edited by kiwi (edited 09-02-2003).]

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#119745 - 09/02/03 07:24 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Big Bear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/15/03
Posts: 1068
Loc: Northern Ireland
[QUOTE]Originally posted by kiwi:
Yea colly it's a great site.

Big Bear

A major artery runs thorugh your leg. If youu get cut you will alomst certainly suffer severe blood loss or maybe even die. Frankly you better of getting stabbed in the gut.

Kiwi, there are arteries all over your body pal. I'd still take a cut to my leg than to my gut-i don't know y, just don't like the thought of having a knife in my belly.

With regards to the technique, i don't think its one i'd use myself, its just one that was in my mind. I was taking it to the extreme though.i mean, knife being held with blade pointin towards sky, attacker not having a clue (maybe even blind!!!!) etc. Yeah i admit its a shit technique but i was trying to think of examplea as quickly as possible.

Kiwi i've just finished one of Geoff thompson's books-real kicking. Its short but a good read. He does say that high kicks shouldn't be used in the street, but there are exceptions to the rule-always. Kiwi try and get the book, i don't mean to enlighten you or anything, just from one tkd practioneer to another, and also because you seem interested in Geoff Thompson. He has stacks of other books pout as well, fom real kicking to real punching etc.

Big Bear

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#119746 - 09/02/03 08:18 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
JohnL Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 4309
Loc: NY, NY, USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by kiwi:
Ishinn

So Geoff Thompson, a former bouncer, who has used a high kick in a fight, does not know what he is talking. Thsi guy is one of the most experienced street fighters in the world. Sorry mate but I'm going to take hsi word over yours.

P.S I'm not saying that high kicks should be used all the time, I'm just saying that they can be used and can be effective.

[This message has been edited by kiwi (edited 09-02-2003).]
[/QUOTE]


Hi Kiwi
The problem is that people who practice high kicks believe that they are effective on the street.

I define effective as, when you throw a technique it is probably going to work.
Having one instance when a high kick worked does not make it an effective technique.
The chances of pull off a high kick in street situations are minimal. As such the technique is ineffective.

Take it out of your "fighting" reportoire.

JohnL

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#119747 - 09/02/03 03:38 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
UKfightfreak Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco
Personally I would not use high kicks on the street, even though I can throw them at any time, any height and with full power with no warm up - most people do need to warm up making the situation worse. Ability to do high kicks is about strength in your legs, the stronger they are the more flexible they should be, if this is the case your low and medium height kicks should be more powerful.

Also Geoff Thompson describes a high kick that worked, he certainly does NOT advocate them for use on the street.

As for high kicks generally, I don't train in Martial Arts just for street combat, I enjoy kicking high in sparring - so why bother?

Why bother doing anything?

Why not just sit at home bolt the door and sit on the internet typing shite (?) then you wouldn't need to know any Martial Arts at all.

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#119748 - 09/02/03 11:07 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Colly Offline
Member

Registered: 08/27/03
Posts: 66
Settle yourself- don't take it personally. I didn't mean why bother at all, if you read my posts I said why bother practising high kicks as an alternative to low kicks.

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#119749 - 09/02/03 11:58 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
kiwi Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/26/03
Posts: 789
Loc: Wellington New Zealand
Take it out of your fighting repetoir. I would not and never have used a head kick in a street fight. Please do not think that because I am defending something that I use it heavily. I only defend things when blanket statements are thrown over certain techniques whoever saids that you can use a head kick in a street fight doesn't know what their talking about. My aim here is too show that high kicking can work on the street and is worth learning. Not that it should be used on the street and is worth learning by itself with no hands.

Big Bear

My Master used to get taught exactly what you are talking about. He then became a PE teacher and realised the danger this technique would put him in extreme danger in a real situation (with a knife). There are so many places that you are better taking a cut too then your leg e.g the palm down side of your forearm (not the side all those veins are on, the other side).

[This message has been edited by kiwi (edited 09-02-2003).]

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#119750 - 09/03/03 12:43 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Isshin Dude Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/03
Posts: 480
Loc: Knoxville Tennessee U.S.A
Kiwi,You're backpedalling.

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#119751 - 09/04/03 10:44 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Oh boy. I wasnt going to respond but here I am. If a high kick is used correctly(proper range, timing, as a follow up technique) then they are effective. I have no reserve over using them on the street and have numerous times effectively, not having it backfire once. The key is knowing which kicks work and which dont. Id never use an ax and a side kick only if surrounded. Front kicks and roundhouses are good. Hook kicks are good if you can use them with the same speed as your roundhouse.

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#119752 - 09/05/03 07:15 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Rand Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/03
Posts: 338
Isshin i do not mean to sound disrespectful
but not everyone kicks exactly the same

some people may kick slow and ONLY be able to use low kicks

some people may be able to kick extremely fast and can use high kicks SOMETIMES

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#119753 - 09/06/03 12:58 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Isshin Dude Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/03
Posts: 480
Loc: Knoxville Tennessee U.S.A
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rand:
Isshin i do not mean to sound disrespectful
but not everyone kicks exactly the same

some people may kick slow and ONLY be able to use low kicks

some people may be able to kick extremely fast and can use high kicks SOMETIMES

[/QUOTE]Rand,If you're sparring you can kick as high as you want,Kumite/Sparring should never be confused with selfdefense. Several things to think about. FOr example,WHile kicking low rapid kicks,You hav a better chance of disabling you adversary,As I've said before you would be able to move with ballance,As well as power,& It will also enable you to have a quicker foot work. PS It's better to train with practical,& Yet very nasty low kicks,Then to kick high,& then endup on the 6 O clock news. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]

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#119754 - 09/06/03 02:09 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Rand Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/03
Posts: 338
i dont know about you but a quick round kick or shin kick to the ribs or lower torso for me is pretty quick

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#119755 - 09/08/03 06:45 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Isshin Dude Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/03
Posts: 480
Loc: Knoxville Tennessee U.S.A
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rand:
i dont know about you but a quick round kick or shin kick to the ribs or lower torso for me is pretty quick [/QUOTE]Rand I'm not gonne say you would'nt be able to do those techniques in a one,On one altercation,But so many fights are within arms lenght<or closer.Onething though,WIth every one on one altercation that I've been in,I've never been able to use a sidekick.Just like chen said,A sidekick could only be done if there were more than one attacker,Any thoughts. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

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#119756 - 09/08/03 05:38 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Rand Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/03
Posts: 338
from arms length you MIGHT be able to go into a clinch and pummel the guy with your knee , by bringing him down into your knee as you pull your knee up

[This message has been edited by Rand (edited 09-08-2003).]

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#119757 - 09/09/03 01:55 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Knees work well in the clinch as do elbows, ala Muay Thai. The thing to look for is to make sure that while delivering the knee that you arent open to getting taken off your feet. Move forward with the attack this way your rear leg is at an angle so that it serves as an anchor if you are pushed backwards.

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#119758 - 09/09/03 12:12 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
wt3264 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 09/09/03
Posts: 4
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
Perhaps the reason that we still put so much emphasis on high kicks is because that's the way it's always been done. Sad but true I think.

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#119759 - 09/09/03 06:03 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Isshin Dude Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/03
Posts: 480
Loc: Knoxville Tennessee U.S.A
[QUOTE]Originally posted by wt3264:
Perhaps the reason that we still put so much emphasis on high kicks is because that's the way it's always been done. Sad but true I think. [/QUOTE]As far,As tournements go I would agree with you. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

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#119760 - 09/09/03 06:59 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Rand Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/03
Posts: 338
After watching some muay thai matches Notably one In Helsinki Finland during the master cup martial arts tournement in 1995

i see how low kicks can work especially with people not ready for them if you can find it anywhere online watch it the Muay Thai Fighters name is Tomi Makkonen

he trips up the karate and tae kwon do practitioners with low kicks to the back of the thigh and knee never being hit or taken down one of the reasons i want to go to Thailand to train

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#119761 - 09/09/03 07:45 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Reklats Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/09/03
Posts: 20
Have any of you guys watched K-1? If someone goes for a kick to the head their opponent is more than welcome to try and knock them over or kick their leg out, but head kicks are still VERY EFFECTIVE. People get KO'd left and right by high kicks.

Leg kicks are nice, but whoever said they're more effective for disabling an opponent is crazy. It takes dozens of kicks to wear down someones legs - do you have TIME for that in a streetfight?

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#119762 - 09/09/03 08:03 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
I agree with your point about high kicks and I am a fan of them but I dont believe it takes dozens of low kicks to disable a leg. In fact, I wager to say that if I land two solid leg kicks that I could take down any leg if not destroy it completely.

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#119763 - 09/09/03 10:58 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Isshin Dude Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/03
Posts: 480
Loc: Knoxville Tennessee U.S.A
Hey guys,Watch this MT fighter beat the crap out of this tkd practitioner. www.bullshido.com/dl_info.asp?id=5

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#119764 - 09/10/03 12:02 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Problem with video refernced, the TKD guy kicks with the speed and commitment of a dead turtle.
His technique looked awful tenative.

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#119765 - 09/10/03 12:08 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
kiwi Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/26/03
Posts: 789
Loc: Wellington New Zealand
Nice link

but using singular exmaples as part of your argument is stupid.

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#119766 - 09/10/03 03:44 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Isshin Dude Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/03
Posts: 480
Loc: Knoxville Tennessee U.S.A
kiwisaid,
Nice link

but using singular exmaples as part of your argument is stupid.[/QUOTE]That was entertainment,Not selfdefense.So there's noway I would even use that link as an example,I Just thought it was a cool to watch.PS Nope! It's being real life experiances,But more importantly,Surviving real life expirances,& Learning from them that make a difference in a martial artist,So kiwi, I was'nt tring to start a fuss. Cheers [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

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#119767 - 09/11/03 04:19 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Reklats Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/09/03
Posts: 20
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chen Zen:
I agree with your point about high kicks and I am a fan of them but I dont believe it takes dozens of low kicks to disable a leg. In fact, I wager to say that if I land two solid leg kicks that I could take down any leg if not destroy it completely.[/QUOTE]

Maybe if someone stood there, and let you get a running start and then kick them. You have to balance speed with power... A kick that gets shin blocked or side stepped doesn't do much damage but still counts towards your total [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

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#119768 - 09/15/03 08:49 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Sure Reklats or Stalker, but you dont have to run and kick. If a stance is too wide, and I land a solid leg kick, its bye bye for there leg. Im talking about leg kicks that LAND, not graze or get blocked or miss completely. Two that LAND, its a broke leg if the first doesnt do it.

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#119769 - 09/16/03 10:43 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Reklats Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/09/03
Posts: 20
I guess I agree that if someone lets you kick them in the knee twice you could do some damage... but anyone worth their martial arts salt will do their best to dodge or block, OR present a less vulnerable part of their leg to you, in which case it'll take many more kicks.

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#119770 - 09/18/03 02:11 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
BaiginLong Offline
Member

Registered: 09/18/03
Posts: 56
well let's see I regularly rag on Tae Kwon Do but no matter what I still have to give them props on form

seriously though high kicks are not useless if you know what you are doing especially if you kick faster than most people punch (make sure you still punch faster than you kick though) and that comes with lost of practice and proper form (hence TKD)

one real life situation I survived:
China; ten bigger guys on me
thank god for kicks

it's all about experience man
don't dis stuff you think is impractical
it may just be that you aren't experienced or insightful enough to use it effectively

also the high kicks in TKD were for foot soldiers vs. mounted troops originally but they still good for kicking people on foot into the hospital

essentially every move has its purpose and it all depends on timing, execution, and delivery

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#119771 - 09/18/03 02:44 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Reklats, all it takes is one well placed kick with even a third of your leg strength. A knee cap can only withstand a force of 70 pounds before it rips or snaps. I can kick 70 pounds turning over in my sleep. Granted the more experienced fighter is going to gaurd against this but all it takes is a second of complacency before its all over.

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#119772 - 09/18/03 09:39 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Isshin Dude Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/03
Posts: 480
Loc: Knoxville Tennessee U.S.A
BaiginLong said

seriously though high kicks are not useless if you know what you are doing especially if you kick faster than most people punch (make sure you still punch faster than you kick though) and that comes with lost of practice and proper form (hence TKD)

one real life situation I survived:
China; ten bigger guys on me
thank god for kicks

it's all about experience man
don't dis stuff you think is impractical
it may just be that you aren't experienced or insightful enough to use it effectively

also the high kicks in TKD were for foot soldiers vs. mounted troops originally but they still good for kicking people on foot into the hospital

essentially every move has its purpose and it all depends on timing, execution, and delivery Baginlong, I Really hope you're talking to me.Anyway if You want to know the real history about tkd,Go to http://ocaladojo.tripod.com/karatedojo/id6.html Oh,I Have some questions for you,1st question Are you a teenager? 2nd question,DO you lie periodically? [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] 3rd Question,Have you been in the MA for 6 months? 4th Question,Do your dan certificates crayon markings. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] 5th Question,Did you learn karate from watching the power rangers? PS Be yourself.


[This message has been edited by Isshin Dude (edited 09-18-2003).]

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#119773 - 09/18/03 12:53 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Big Bear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/15/03
Posts: 1068
Loc: Northern Ireland
i just watched that video link between the tkd guy and the muay thai lad-funny as hell. I would like to point out however that one of the kicks that knocked the tkd man down was a well placed kick to the head.

You may only ever be in a situation once in your life when it is better to use a head kick than anything else, but if you use the head kick in that one instance then it has a use in your repetoire.

[This message has been edited by Big Bear (edited 09-18-2003).]

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#119774 - 09/18/03 11:15 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
BaiginLong Offline
Member

Registered: 09/18/03
Posts: 56
First of all I am 19 thank you very much I did not learn karate
I am currently Jeet Kun Do primarily
also learned some Shao Lin, Capoeira, Muay Thai, Kenjutsu andIajutsu, and other styles on the side
my original training comes from an apprenticeship in Wing Chun thank you very much so I do not fuck with belts and whatnot

As I said I am not a big fan of TKD but I give it props
thus don't bitch at me for mistakes on their history

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#119775 - 09/18/03 11:20 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
BaiginLong Offline
Member

Registered: 09/18/03
Posts: 56
before all that though I learned to survive in Chicago's southwest side where I grew up
if anything I learned to fight there
and I didn't know a damn thing about kicks until I was older

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#119776 - 09/19/03 12:05 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Big bear hit it on the head. If you only ever have to use it once and it works then it is a worthy technique.

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#119777 - 09/20/03 06:00 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Isshin Dude Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/03
Posts: 480
Loc: Knoxville Tennessee U.S.A
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chen Zen:
Big bear hit it on the head. If you only ever have to use it once and it works then it is a worthy technique.[/QUOTE]THe thai fighter,Did a right low kick in the back of the legs,& As he was falling down,The thai fighter kicked him with his left ft to the head/face. Yeah! The thai fighter kicked him in the head/face,But it was a lowkick that daused the tkd fighter to fall. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

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#119778 - 09/21/03 03:00 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
mikelw Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 1031
Loc: Bothell, Washington (not DC), ...
[QUOTE]Originally posted by kiwi:
Yea colly it's a great site.

Big Bear

A major artery runs thorugh your leg. If youu get cut you will alomst certainly suffer severe blood loss or maybe even die. Frankly you better of getting stabbed in the gut.

Ishinn

So Geoff Thompson, a former bouncer, who has used a high kick in a fight, does not know what he is talking. Thsi guy is one of the most experienced street fighters in the world. Sorry mate but I'm going to take hsi word over yours.

P.S I'm not saying that high kicks should be used all the time, I'm just saying that they can be used and can be effective.

[This message has been edited by kiwi (edited 09-02-2003).]
[/QUOTE]

Yes, you've said it yourself, A high kick, as in one. Do you think he's used more punches or head kicks?

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#119779 - 09/22/03 03:08 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
kiwi Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/26/03
Posts: 789
Loc: Wellington New Zealand
Exactly mike so you now agree with my point that high kicks can work. I didn't say they should be used reguarly or at aLL, just that they can work. I just detest blanket statements and hence do evrything I can to prove them wrong. Which I thnk has been done.

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#119780 - 09/22/03 06:57 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Isshin Dude Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/03
Posts: 480
Loc: Knoxville Tennessee U.S.A
[QUOTE]Originally posted by kiwi:
Exactly mike so you now agree with my point that high kicks can work. I didn't say they should be used reguarly or at aLL, just that they can work. I just detest blanket statements and hence do evrything I can to prove them wrong. Which I thnk has been done.[/QUOTE]Nope!

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#119781 - 09/22/03 03:49 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Big Bear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/15/03
Posts: 1068
Loc: Northern Ireland
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Isshin Dude:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chen Zen:
Big bear hit it on the head. If you only ever have to use it once and it works then it is a worthy technique.[/QUOTE]THe thai fighter,Did a right low kick in the back of the legs,& As he was falling down,The thai fighter kicked him with his left ft to the head/face. Yeah! The thai fighter kicked him in the head/face,But it was a lowkick that daused the tkd fighter to fall. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

[/QUOTE]


Isshin i'd advise you to watch the clip again-the kick you stated to be the knockdown technique was nothing more than a token kick (like a jab before the knockout cross), the kick that downed the guy was a head kick.

But knowing how arguementitive you are lets say that you are right, then you just stated yourself that head kicks are effective, even if it is on someone who is falling anyway. Your just making sure they aint gettin up.

Before you come back to me to say how little experience i have, just watch the clip again and you'l see that it was a token kick that led up to the head kick.

Bear


[This message has been edited by Big Bear (edited 09-22-2003).]

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#119782 - 09/22/03 07:15 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Isshin Dude Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/03
Posts: 480
Loc: Knoxville Tennessee U.S.A
The thai fighter,Did knockdown the tkdoist 3 times each time with a LOWKICK.The other times when the thia fighter would kick,It would be a lowkick in back of his opponets legs,WHich would liter cause him to lose his ballance,& AT the end of the lip the thai fighter kicked the tkdoist in BACK of the LEGS,WHich caused him to fall,& As he was falling he got kicked again in the face. PS Count howmany lowkicks are in the clip,& Then ask me why there were somany lowkicks? compared to your one highkick. Btw If highkicks work so well,How come the tkd fighter got his butt kicked? [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]& Remember don't hate the player,Hate the game. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

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#119783 - 09/22/03 10:12 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Watched broadcast on espn2 of a tournament called night of champions. Basicly thai boxers from across europe and 2 actaul thais.

about 30 seconds into one match-one of the thais launched double round kick to the head, First one knocked oponent out-2nd one thrown before guy even started falling, it knocked him through the ropes.

A solid, well powered kick can seriously mess up your opponent,that is why you learn them.Can you actualy make it work in the real world? I don't know. Should you try it? probably not.

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#119784 - 09/22/03 11:25 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Isshin Dude Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/03
Posts: 480
Loc: Knoxville Tennessee U.S.A
Big bear, Yeah! I've said it before,& I'll say it again,Pride/K1,Yadda,Yadda,Yadda,ARe great to watch,But a Pride/K1 event is'nt the same as defending yourself against multiple thugs,& WHere you would have to use more practicle techniques for a real situation,You defeinetly don't,Or would use such techniques in a pride,Or k1 event because of rules. I WOuld like to think,Or at least hope that while your're in a self defense situation,That you would do you best to protect yourself,Or someone else.That is while when one is defending himself/herself,That person has a responsibllity to his/her best to not only stop,But do disable an attacker if need be.To do that is to illimunate fancy techniques,& If that means to kick low when need be,Then that's what should be done no ifs,ands,Or buts,It's not a movie,But it could be a matter of life & death.Btw If they'er some of you out there that are hooked on doing highkicks,Rather it's to get some girls attention,Or some other silly reason,Remember that you fight how you train.I Know as a instructor,I WOuld get child that had zero confidence.Then it's my responibillity to not only give him/her confidence,But to tell him,Or her the do's,& donts,WHat is right,& wht is wrong,SO I'm telling you big bear,From a self defense point of view,You'er wrong. DOn't take this personal,But think about,A low kick is faster,You have more ballance,But whatever your opinion is I'm sure you're gonna tell me about it. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

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#119785 - 09/23/03 07:34 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Big Bear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/15/03
Posts: 1068
Loc: Northern Ireland
Isshin this same old problem arises time and time again with you-you never read what is written. What did i say in my earlier posts? I'l remind you:

"You may only ever be in a situation once in your life when it is better to use a head kick than anything else, but if you use the head kick in that one instance then it has a use in your repetoire."

This was my point regarding kicks in the first place-where do you get off trying to say that i would use a kick to impress girls? I'm not going to indulge myself in petty squabbling with you as you seem to make a point in trying too put people down in this forumm.

Regarding the video link that YOU told us to go to you said this :

"THe thai fighter,Did a right low kick in the back of the legs,& As he was falling down,The thai fighter kicked him with his left ft to the head/face. Yeah! The thai fighter kicked him in the head/face,But it was a lowkick that daused the tkd fighter to fall"

I pointed out in my post after that that the low kick you mentioned was merely a token kick-that it was the head kick that knocked the tkd guy down on THAT occassion-on every other occasion however it was the low kicks that done the job> Again this supports my opinion on the matter-i wouldn't go out of my way to do a high kick-but i may get the opportunity once in my life where it makes sense to, and if it is even only once out of a thousand skirmishes then to me it is still a useful technique.

BTW i never mentioned Pride ya da ya da, or multiple opponents, i mentioned the video clip. Isshin, it's time you started to read what others are saying rather than being rude for the sake of it.

Bear.

p.s Before you go of on one trying to find fault in what i'm saying, re-read my 2 earlier posts on this page-i simply mentioned the fact that the head kick took the guy down.

Is there any1 else out there that didn't see it this way? I'm not saying that this kick was more effective than the low kicks, but i just want to clarify something here-did the head kick take the guy down or not?

Here's the link:
http://www.bullshido.com/dl_info.asp?id=5

Isshin, since you made such a point of trying to rubbish what i said, have one more look and tell me that it wasn't the head kick that took him down. That was the only thing i tried to say in that post. Some come on Isshin, why did it rub you up the wrong way, or do you just go out of your way to be rude to people who don't agree with you.

Bear

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#119786 - 09/23/03 07:46 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Big Bear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/15/03
Posts: 1068
Loc: Northern Ireland
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Isshin Dude:
The thai fighter,Did knockdown the tkdoist 3 times each time with a LOWKICK.The other times when the thia fighter would kick,It would be a lowkick in back of his opponets legs,WHich would liter cause him to lose his ballance,& AT the end of the lip the thai fighter kicked the tkdoist in BACK of the LEGS,WHich caused him to fall,& As he was falling he got kicked again in the face. PS Count howmany lowkicks are in the clip,& Then ask me why there were somany lowkicks? compared to your one highkick. Btw If highkicks work so well,How come the tkd fighter got his butt kicked? [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]& Remember don't hate the player,Hate the game. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]


Just in case you didn't read what i worte in one of my earlier posts i'll highlight it for you:

"You may only ever be in a situation once in your life when it is better to use a head kick than anything else, but if you use the head kick in that one instance then it has a use in your repetoire."

Your also tryin to prance away from your original arguement with me. I never said that high kicks were more effective. I said they have a place in my repetoire for the reason that i mite need it one day.

But lets look at it your way isshin,

"Count howmany lowkicks are in the clip,& Then ask me why there were somany lowkicks? compared to your one highkick."

OK how many were there? 5,6,7 low kicks to 1 high kick? If we were taking it in this once instace (and i am only taking it in this once instance) how many punches downed either fighter? We know that a punch (jab, cross etc) is probably the most used in a fight. But Isshin the way you argued your last point would suggest that even a punch shouldn't be practised because it didn't take the guy down in this one instance, as it was only the low kicks over MY high kick.

Catch a grip of yourself and grow up, your being arguementitive for the sake of it and its growing tiresome.

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#119787 - 09/23/03 12:33 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Isshin Dude Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/03
Posts: 480
Loc: Knoxville Tennessee U.S.A
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Big Bear:

Just in case you didn't read what i worte in one of my earlier posts i'll highlight it for you:

"You may only ever be in a situation once in your life when it is better to use a head kick than anything else, but if you use the head kick in that one instance then it has a use in your repetoire."

Your also tryin to prance away from your original arguement with me. I never said that high kicks were more effective. I said they have a place in my repetoire for the reason that i mite need it one day.

But lets look at it your way isshin,

"Count howmany lowkicks are in the clip,& Then ask me why there were somany lowkicks? compared to your one highkick."

OK how many were there? 5,6,7 low kicks to 1 high kick? If we were taking it in this once instace (and i am only taking it in this once instance) how many punches downed either fighter? We know that a punch (jab, cross etc) is probably the most used in a fight. But Isshin the way you argued your last point would suggest that even a punch shouldn't be practised because it didn't take the guy down in this one instance, as it was only the low kicks over MY high kick.

Catch a grip of yourself and grow up, your being arguementitive for the sake of it and its growing tiresome.

Don't take this the wrongway,But I beleve it's you lack of experiance,Of being in real life altercations,Or maybe you belong to a mcdojo ,Might be why you have a lack of understanding of what selfdefense is all about. If that's the case it looks like you're in for a rude awakining.Btw,Your arrogance,Ignorrance,& Complacencey,Seems to get in the way from learning practical,& realistic selfdefense. PS The martial arts are a lifetime study,It's not a matter of months,Or yrs,It's for life. Regards Sensei Rhodes

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#119788 - 09/23/03 12:50 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Big Bear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/15/03
Posts: 1068
Loc: Northern Ireland
I think you must have done word fencing as a martial art as you are still making general statements to back up your points. You once told kiwi he was backpeddaling atleadst he had the decency to argue his point and admit the possiblility that he wasn't infalliable. I think you are doing now what you do best isshin, trade insults when someone notices a flaw in your arguement.

You throw words like: inexperienced around. I would be very surprised if you were in the martial arts long, and if you are then you were never taught humility or respect in any of your classes.

What were my original points? Here let me make it even more clear so you cant run away and shout "inexperiece" or any of your other generalisations.

1)A head kick took the tkd man down.

He was felled by more low kicks than head kicks but i never argued against that.

2)If a head kick helps you once in a thousand altercations then it is useful.

I never said i'd jump into an affray waving my legs about like fists so how can this show my inexperience when i never talked from experience in the first place?

I think that had you simply admitted that it was a head kick in the first place that put the guy down rather than come up with the "he was on the way down anyway" crap this would have been avoided.

Its usually the behaviour of a child who can't admit the possibility of being wrong. Maybe your not wrong, or maybe your just a child. i think the latter as your offensive remarks stink of someone who cannot logically back up their personal point of view and who chooses to trade insults instead. As some of your posts on this thread so evidently points out.

So why don't we just drop this before you come up with the "agree to disagree" statement which seems to have cropped a few times when you been backed into a corner.



[This message has been edited by Big Bear (edited 09-23-2003).]

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#119789 - 09/23/03 01:33 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Isshin Dude Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/03
Posts: 480
Loc: Knoxville Tennessee U.S.A
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Big Bear:
I think you must have done word fencing as a martial art as you are still making general statements to back up your points. You once told kiwi he was backpeddaling atleadst he had the decency to argue his point and admit the possiblility that he wasn't infalliable. I think you are doing now what you do best isshin, trade insults when someone notices a flaw in your arguement.

You throw words like: inexperienced around. I would be very surprised if you were in the martial arts long, and if you are then you were never taught humility or respect in any of your classes.

What were my original points? Here let me make it even more clear so you cant run away and shout "inexperiece" or any of your other generalisations.

1)A head kick took the tkd man down.

He was felled by more low kicks than head kicks but i never argued against that.

2)If a head kick helps you once in a thousand altercations then it is useful.

I never said i'd jump into an affray waving my legs about like fists so how can this show my inexperience when i never talked from experience in the first place?

I think that had you simply admitted that it was a head kick in the first place that put the guy down rather than come up with the "he was on the way down anyway" crap this would have been avoided.

Its usually the behaviour of a child who can't admit the possibility of being wrong. Maybe your not wrong, or maybe your just a child. i think the latter as your offensive remarks stink of someone who cannot logically back up their personal point of view and who chooses to trade insults instead. As some of your posts on this thread so evidently points out.

So why don't we just drop this before you come up with the "agree to disagree" statement which seems to have cropped a few times when you been backed into a corner.

[This message has been edited by Big Bear (edited 09-23-2003).]
[/QUOTE]Big bear,May I congradulate you on the most unintelligent post I've seen in alongtime.I WOnder if you,& Commoncents might be the same person,& Remember don't hate the player,Hate the game. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/tongue.gif[/IMG]

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#119790 - 09/23/03 03:58 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Big Bear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/15/03
Posts: 1068
Loc: Northern Ireland
Isshin the majority of your input on this thread has either been:

1) generalisations
2) Insults

Again, why is this? Can't you just properly state your reasons as to why you disagree with someone rather than trade insults. All your doing is saying that your not smart enough to formulate your own arguemnt so your going to insult the person instead.

This player and game business-what are you talking about? I don't know you but when someone attacks me rather than my arguement i have reason to dislike them. And what game is it? TKD? Martial arts? If you hate tkd so much why are you on the tkd forum so much? You don't really contribute anything rather than slagging people off, so why bother?

Lets get beck to the original argument, and to keep this civil why don't i quote what you said so you will understand me a little better:

"THe thai fighter,Did a right low kick in the back of the legs,& As he was falling down,The thai fighter kicked him with his left ft to the head/face. Yeah! The thai fighter kicked him in the head/face,But it was a lowkick that daused the tkd fighter to fall. "

This is what you said and what really started this whole affair between us.

Why don't you just answer the questtion rather than run away-was it a head kick or not that knocked him down?

Atleast someone like JKogas who also says that high kicks are a waste of time backs his arguements up when he disagrees with someone. You don't even do that. All you do is make derogartory remarks about anyone on this site who disagrees wqith you.

One lst thing-tryin to put the whole commencents one on me is a nice touch. Shows your maturity.

[This message has been edited by Big Bear (edited 09-23-2003).]

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#119791 - 09/23/03 05:22 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Isshin Dude Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/03
Posts: 480
Loc: Knoxville Tennessee U.S.A
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Big Bear:
Isshin the majority of your input on this thread has either been:

1) generalisations
2) Insults

Again, why is this? Can't you just properly state your reasons as to why you disagree with someone rather than trade insults. All your doing is saying that your not smart enough to formulate your own arguemnt so your going to insult the person instead.

This player and game business-what are you talking about? I don't know you but when someone attacks me rather than my arguement i have reason to dislike them. And what game is it? TKD? Martial arts? If you hate tkd so much why are you on the tkd forum so much? You don't really contribute anything rather than slagging people off, so why bother?

Lets get beck to the original argument, and to keep this civil why don't i quote what you said so you will understand me a little better:

"THe thai fighter,Did a right low kick in the back of the legs,& As he was falling down,The thai fighter kicked him with his left ft to the head/face. Yeah! The thai fighter kicked him in the head/face,But it was a lowkick that daused the tkd fighter to fall. "

This is what you said and what really started this whole affair between us.

Why don't you just answer the questtion rather than run away-was it a head kick or not that knocked him down?

Atleast someone like JKogas who also says that high kicks are a waste of time backs his arguements up when he disagrees with someone. You don't even do that. All you do is make derogartory remarks about anyone on this site who disagrees wqith you.

One lst thing-tryin to put the whole commencents one on me is a nice touch. Shows your maturity.

[This message has been edited by Big Bear (edited 09-23-2003).]
[/QUOTE]I Was being strait forward thinking maybe that would help you,But you'd just dicide to take that as an insult,Rather then learn from what I'm telling you. By the way, I'm getting rather bored,& Besides this thread's dead anyway,& I'm done here. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/cool.gif[/IMG] PS Don't hate the player,Hate the game [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]

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#119792 - 09/23/03 06:12 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Big Bear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/15/03
Posts: 1068
Loc: Northern Ireland
Still you dodged the question isshin. But i expected nothing less from you anyway.

Learn? How could anyone learn from your comments? They rarely make sense as you never back them up. There are people on this forum who's viws i don't agree with but i atleast can see where they come from as they state their case. And respond when you put a question to them instead of ignoring it in fear that they have to admit to something that they don't like.

The more i write here the more i want to know your age. I feel that i have let myself down a bundle, not with my comments but by the fact that i have responded and critisized the comments of a child.

For the 1st time i'l agree with you that the thread has ran its course.

P.s Would there be any point in me asking your age? I doubt you would answer isshin.

[This message has been edited by Big Bear (edited 09-23-2003).]

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#119793 - 09/24/03 05:04 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
BaiginLong Offline
Member

Registered: 09/18/03
Posts: 56
Hmmm... It seems that it would be pointless to argue about this point. The boiled down version of this topic would be that high kicks are rarely successful though they can still be useful.
I'll make a minor off-topic comment here: perhaps we should look to Isshin dude's wonderful spelling and grammar as a guage of his maturity and acutual level of experience.

Come on. My old master stopped teaching me after I got into a fight and lost my temper and even I can tell you're BSing all over the place.
*mumbles to himself*
~sigh~ Now I have to learn on my own. Can't even try and apolgize to master since he's back in China. Eh, oh well.

[This message has been edited by BaiginLong (edited 09-24-2003).]

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#119794 - 09/24/03 07:25 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Isshin Dude Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/03
Posts: 480
Loc: Knoxville Tennessee U.S.A
[QUOTE]Originally posted by BaiginLong:
well let's see I regularly rag on Tae Kwon Do but no matter what I still have to give them props on form

seriously though high kicks are not useless if you know what you are doing especially if you kick faster than most people punch (make sure you still punch faster than you kick though) and that comes with lost of practice and proper form (hence TKD)

one real life situation I survived:
China; ten bigger guys on me
thank god for kicks

it's all about experience man
don't dis stuff you think is impractical
it may just be that you aren't experienced or insightful enough to use it effectively

also the high kicks in TKD were for foot soldiers vs. mounted troops originally but they still good for kicking people on foot into the hospital

essentially every move has its purpose and it all depends on timing, execution, and delivery
[/QUOTE]Do you want fries with that. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

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#119795 - 09/24/03 07:30 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Isshin Dude Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/03
Posts: 480
Loc: Knoxville Tennessee U.S.A
[QUOTE]Originally posted by BaiginLong:
First of all I am 19 thank you very much I did not learn karate
I am currently Jeet Kun Do primarily
also learned some Shao Lin, Capoeira, Muay Thai, Kenjutsu andIajutsu, and other styles on the side
my original training comes from an apprenticeship in Wing Chun thank you very much so I do not fuck with belts and whatnot

As I said I am not a big fan of TKD but I give it props
thus don't bitch at me for mistakes on their history
[/QUOTE]SO many styles to learn from,& very little learning. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

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#119796 - 09/24/03 07:32 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
BaiginLong Offline
Member

Registered: 09/18/03
Posts: 56
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Isshin Dude:

Big bear,May I congradulate you on the most unintelligent post I've seen in alongtime.I WOnder if you,& Commoncents might be the same person,& Remember don't hate the player,Hate the game. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/tongue.gif[/IMG]

[/QUOTE]

Hooked on phonics is your friend.

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#119797 - 09/24/03 07:35 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Isshin Dude Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/03
Posts: 480
Loc: Knoxville Tennessee U.S.A
and I didn't know a damn thing about kicks until I was older You still don't know anything about kicks. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] PS Your posts are verygood examples BSing, [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG] & Your inexperiance is evident. Remember,Don't hate the player,Hate the game. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/cool.gif[/IMG]



[This message has been edited by Isshin Dude (edited 09-24-2003).]

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#119798 - 09/24/03 07:36 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
BaiginLong Offline
Member

Registered: 09/18/03
Posts: 56
Funny thing is I haven't seen anyone agree with you about me yet so I wonder... I guess you're the one slinging crap

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#119799 - 09/24/03 07:41 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
BaiginLong Offline
Member

Registered: 09/18/03
Posts: 56
And if you're going to talk about the whole thing about the styles I learned.
I am legitimately Wing Chun learned from an apprenticeship in China. After my... expulsion I had to supplement my learning with self study and slowly moved to the Jeet Kune Do school to allow myself to incorporate more styles to create a more effective fighting system for myself.

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#119800 - 09/24/03 08:10 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Big Bear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/15/03
Posts: 1068
Loc: Northern Ireland
BaiginLong,

your wasting your time my friend. I've pointed out before that isshin is only here to make generalisations or trade insults. He doesn't offer anything useful-not on the tkd forum anyway. (I have been rather a little impressed with his input on the Martial Arts forum however)

Don't make the same mistake i made by exchanging posts with him-he never answers your questions or replys with any sense, only by cheap remarks that he thinks others will find amusing. I think he'l find that no one appreciates it as i've yet to find one person to back up his opinion.

Don't hate the player hate the game!!!!!! lol

[This message has been edited by Big Bear (edited 09-24-2003).]

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#119801 - 09/24/03 08:18 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
BaiginLong Offline
Member

Registered: 09/18/03
Posts: 56
agreed but I'm usually not the type of person to allow insults to be hurled at me without answer

...probably the reason I got snuffed by my sifu... [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/frown.gif[/IMG]

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#119802 - 09/24/03 11:02 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Big Bear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/15/03
Posts: 1068
Loc: Northern Ireland
[QUOTE]Originally posted by BaiginLong:
agreed but I'm usually not the type of person to allow insults to be hurled at me without answer

...probably the reason I got snuffed by my sifu... [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/frown.gif[/IMG]
[/QUOTE]

probably pal. lol

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#119803 - 09/26/03 12:33 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Isshin Dude:
[/QUOTE]THe thai fighter,Did a right low kick in the back of the legs,& As he was falling down,The thai fighter kicked him with his left ft to the head/face. Yeah! The thai fighter kicked him in the head/face,But it was a lowkick that daused the tkd fighter to fall. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

[/QUOTE] But the kick landed and had some effect therefore it is a viable technique for that particular fighter.

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#119804 - 09/28/03 12:39 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
I also want to add that the TKD practitioner shown had really no skills. Neither did the Muay Thai fighter in my opinion either. His kicks were slow and wide. Also they lacked any real power that I could see. You want to see TKD vs. Muay Thai watch Tong Po against Joon Rhee

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#119805 - 09/28/03 10:32 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Big Bear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/15/03
Posts: 1068
Loc: Northern Ireland
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chen Zen:
I also want to add that the TKD practitioner shown had really no skills. Neither did the Muay Thai fighter in my opinion either. His kicks were slow and wide. Also they lacked any real power that I could see. You want to see TKD vs. Muay Thai watch Tong Po against Joon Rhee[/QUOTE]

Chen Zen have you a link to that? i love to watch any type of MA clips.

Big Bear

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#119806 - 09/29/03 01:22 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
I wish. Unfortunately its just a fantasy.

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#119807 - 09/29/03 06:32 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Big Bear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/15/03
Posts: 1068
Loc: Northern Ireland
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chen Zen:
I wish. Unfortunately its just a fantasy.[/QUOTE]

f*** that pal, you really had me excited.

General Choi (not going to get into a historical debate) the man who suggested the name Tae Kwon Do to the Korean Gov/council said that Jhoon rhee was the most gifted tkd'ist he had ever saw.

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#119808 - 09/30/03 12:13 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
The Pics of him and Bruce were beautiful. Pure art.

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#119809 - 09/30/03 04:32 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Big Bear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/15/03
Posts: 1068
Loc: Northern Ireland
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chen Zen:
The Pics of him and Bruce were beautiful. Pure art.[/QUOTE]

Chen a great book about Brucie is "Fighting Spirit" by a bloke called Bruce Thomas. It's about his life etc-a great read. If you get a chance you should try and read it.

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#119810 - 10/01/03 10:58 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Thanks,will do.

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#119811 - 02/23/04 02:40 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
ninjaboy Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/22/04
Posts: 12
Loc: Indiana
if you can land any kick to the head, the fight is alreadydone. just push the guy over.

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#119812 - 02/24/04 10:17 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Anonymous
Unregistered


The problem people have it high kicks is that the opponent can grab your foot.

To deal with that trapping and locking is a good option for setting up the attack. If you trapped one of his hands or have him in a wrist lock, how can he catch your foot?

You can high kicks aren't safe, but you can make them safe.

[This message has been edited by Shotokan (edited 02-24-2004).]

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#119813 - 02/27/04 10:35 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Anonymous
Unregistered


http://www.zanshin-shotokan.com.au/gallery/nswdojo/sylvania/index.htm

Here is an example of how high level kicks can be made safe to execute without worry about someone grabbing you leg.

Now, I never said that they were good examples [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] , but they are not half bad.

Just look at the ones that involved trapping.

[This message has been edited by Shotokan (edited 02-27-2004).]

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#119814 - 03/02/04 10:53 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
goldencrane Offline
Member

Registered: 02/23/04
Posts: 432
Loc: Kansas City Kansas USA
Just kick them in the knee first then kick them in the head [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

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#119815 - 03/02/04 11:32 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
JohnL Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 4309
Loc: NY, NY, USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Shotokan:
http://www.zanshin-shotokan.com.au/gallery/nswdojo/sylvania/index.htm

Here is an example of how high level kicks can be made safe to execute without worry about someone grabbing you leg.

Now, I never said that they were good examples [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] , but they are not half bad.

Just look at the ones that involved trapping.

[This message has been edited by Shotokan (edited 02-27-2004).]
[/QUOTE]

That didn't make high kicks look safe at all !!!!

JohnL

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#119816 - 03/03/04 02:46 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
kiwi Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/26/03
Posts: 789
Loc: Wellington New Zealand
The pictures didn't really explain what you were trying to get across. Could you maybe explain what they were doing in words.

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#119817 - 03/04/04 04:50 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
badmamajama Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/06/03
Posts: 1509
while high kicks are risky on street,and not sure i'd recomend them theres no doubt they can be done and have been done,and have been fight enders,in fact if u think about it in u.f.c. they got it on tape where a guy knocked out his opponent with kick to the head,and his opponent definetly was trained and skilled,haveing said that i still believe high kicks to the head are a high risk manuver.i do train my kicks for head hieght but just so i maintain flexability, [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/cool.gif[/IMG]

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#119818 - 03/05/04 02:11 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Anonymous
Unregistered


The idea with kicking low is that it's harder to block and grab the leg.

This is true but not when you have already seized one of you opponents limb. He is gonna be able grab your leg with one hand.

If you grab one of his hands and then pull him into you while kicking (just for brutality).

You do this the same way you would to trapping or grappling combined with striking at any range.

My favourite is pulling the opponent towards me while doing a front stamp kick under his chin. It's a TKO and unstopable cause you can't block once you are trapped.

[This message has been edited by Shotokan (edited 03-05-2004).]

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#119819 - 03/05/04 02:23 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Shotokan, first, what is a front stamp kick? Second, why does it result in a Technical Knockout? Third, why can't a person block a kick with one arm?

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#119820 - 03/05/04 09:11 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by medulanet:
Shotokan, first, what is a front stamp kick? Second, why does it result in a Technical Knockout? Third, why can't a person block a kick with one arm? [/QUOTE]

A front stamp kick is also called a front thrust kick or in Mauy Thai a push kick (or something like that)

It results in a KO because it utilizes the chin as a lever/hammer to send a shockwave to the brain and shut it down. The same way and upper cut works in boxing.

I've seen the martial art Silat do something simular, but [in ground fighting] the kick was deliverd from a standing position to someone one the ground with their arm trapped and pulled towards the kick [which amplifies the power of the thrust/stamp kick].

The opponent may suceed if he is much stronger, but is unlikely if you trap and pull him off-balace breaking his structure. You need the mobility of you upper body to block if you are trapped it makes it harder to do that.

[This message has been edited by Shotokan (edited 03-06-2004).]

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#119821 - 04/03/04 10:47 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
xxjinhyungxx Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 41
-.-;;;
high kicks useless in TKD??
-.-;;; that is a load of crap, 75% of TKD or other leg sport KO's are from headkicks. and not only are they "just beacuse in tkd u can only kick" but it is also like that in a streetfight. JohnL and other idiots think you can grab a leg real easy. that kicker must be a slow-ass-motherfuker
lol
u cant grab a leg while its kicking toward your face.
1. someone tries to maul u in the face
2. you can do a hook kick, it will usually hit his chest or head or hands(which get pushed to ur face, so ur punching urself -.-; [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]

1. someone triest to maul u in the face
2. you do a turn jump back kick, right in the face or the stomach.
result = instant KO

high kicks own, but u dont go and highkcik everyfigher that you fight. if u do, ur just a dumbass. thats like backfisting in boxing as your first punch. you'll never hit a guy.
low kicks = basic combo kicks
high kicks = finishing or large damage kicks
, also if you are a good street fighter, you would distrat them w/ low kicks or hurt their legs w/ low kicks. and while they bend low for protection, a high push kick to their face

my opinoin: high kicks own when used well

jINhYuNG ahN

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#119822 - 04/05/04 08:01 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
JohnL Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 4309
Loc: NY, NY, USA
Well there's a truly inteligent explanation.

Hey Kiwi, with this guy in your corner, there's no hope. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

JohnL

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#119823 - 04/13/04 07:23 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Uriel Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 764
High kicks eh? Well we know the sport application to high kicks...

Street wise? Honestly? I would be comfortable doing a high kick. But you know I wouldn't tell anyone else to do one. Keep the kicks below the belt...knees and such. Armpits if presentable, the side..yada yada.

But high kicks for me are a bit ummm...yeah. I was graced with flexibility and the ability to be "just fast enough". So a point blank (nose to nose) cresent kick can be done with reasonable power. But seriously that would just be showing off. If a fight is going your way so much that you can do a high kick or if you want that lottery kick type thing..maybe you shouldn't be still fighting the person? I mean...what's the point in violence right?

Just walk away from stuff. That's my motto.

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#119824 - 04/15/04 12:22 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
tkdfreak Offline
Stranger

Registered: 04/15/04
Posts: 2
Loc: GA, Augusta, USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Colly:
I was curious as to why we even bother with high kicks? In most sparring head shots are illegal and, from what I've read, you all pretty much agree that high kicks are useless in a street fight. So except as flexibility increasing exercises, exactly what are they good for?[/QUOTE]

tkd green belt I know that, punching is strong and affective but overtime. Your distance is your key during street fights as a finshing blow. And a combination is the mix of a free body to understand this. You should use every body part but like it's a weapon.

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#119825 - 04/15/04 02:54 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Isshinryukid4life Offline
Professional Injury causer

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 2455
Loc: Knoxville.
tkdfreak said, Tkd green belt I know that, Punching is strong and affective but overtime. Your distance is your key during street fights as a finshing blow. And a combination is the mix of a free body to understand this. You should use every body part but like it's a weapon.

Let's look at what's practical as well as realistic.Most fights are either at an arms length,Or closer.Either way,You would'nt & should'nt try a risky move such as a high kick,The opprutunity just is'nt there.I'll just give you some basic targets,Knees,Groin,Thighs,Shins,Rach of the ft.Why did i pick these targets? You're a green belt & in no doubt have some knowledge about them.Because,WHile you're defending yourself,It's your job not only to win or stop the fight or whatever,Its to disable your opponett. For example,If the knee is bent while you in range,& When the opprotunity presents itself by all means kick low.If he's alittle farther back,Kick the shins.But sad to say most fights are much closer,& the last thing the defender needs to do, is to try & attempt to even kick above the waist much less to the head. The things to think about, Now days fights are to close for comfort. You might have to end up using your fists,Eldows,Knees,Or even your head.& When/If you go to the ground,What then?So IMCO That a high kick should not be used,Or even taught as a selfdefense technique what soever. Also think of it this way If they'er multi-opponetts.Would you do something as risky as to kick high.Lower kicks come in to play, For seveal reasons. #1 menuverabillty,In other words to move in & out of danerous situations. #2 Keeping your ballance,Enables you to throw his off.#3 You will need to be a split second faster in oder to survive. PS It's not always the toughest that win fights,But the smartest. =====================================Cheers. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]



[This message has been edited by Isshinryukid4life (edited 04-15-2004).]

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#119826 - 04/17/04 07:49 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
applegm Offline
Member

Registered: 04/15/03
Posts: 58
Loc: Hong Kong
Hey,

I remember that there was a Korean soldier in Vietnam during the Vietnam war, killed a Green Beret with one single kick.

I presume it was to the head.

Thanks,

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#119827 - 04/17/04 09:21 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Isshinryukid4life Offline
Professional Injury causer

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 2455
Loc: Knoxville.
applegm:
apelgm said Hey,

I remember that there was a Korean soldier in Vietnam during the Vietnam war, killed a Green Beret with one single kick.

I presume it was to the head.

Thanks,
Aplgm,No offense,But it Sounds more like hear say then actual proof.

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#119828 - 04/18/04 01:02 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Uriel Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 764
a *korean* soldier in *vietnam* killing a *green barret* with *one single shot*

yeah..um...

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#119829 - 04/18/04 01:33 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
nekogami13 V2.0 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 2643
Loc: Texas, USA
A korean soldier, fighting in viet nam. I suppose it was possible.
Killed a green beret with a kick to the head?
Was this after he shot him with his ak-47 and the green beret was lying on the ground?
Or did the korean soldier spring from the jungle, running towards the green beret who was defenseless(though I believe a m-4 carbine beats ANY kick)?

Why stop with a single green beret?
Let's make the story he took out an entire specops group. He did this by standing on one leg, leaning back, flailing the foot of the raised leg around as he hopped after them. Even better, he would have single handedly won the conflict, except when he hopped across the country he fell into the gulf of tonkin and drowned.

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#119830 - 04/19/04 05:06 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
darkesthours Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/18/04
Posts: 12
Loc: Orange, CA USA
A couple of years ago, didn't someone die at a tournament cause he took a spinning hook kick to the temple? I remember reading something about that in the newspaper.

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#119831 - 04/19/04 11:04 AM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Yoseikan Student Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/02/03
Posts: 1166
Loc: UK
[QUOTE]Originally posted by nekogami13 V2.0:
A korean soldier, fighting in viet nam. I suppose it was possible.
Killed a green beret with a kick to the head?
Was this after he shot him with his ak-47 and the green beret was lying on the ground?
Or did the korean soldier spring from the jungle, running towards the green beret who was defenseless(though I believe a m-4 carbine beats ANY kick)?

Why stop with a single green beret?
Let's make the story he took out an entire specops group. He did this by standing on one leg, leaning back, flailing the foot of the raised leg around as he hopped after them. Even better, he would have single handedly won the conflict, except when he hopped across the country he fell into the gulf of tonkin and drowned.
[/QUOTE]

LOL!

Neko, mate, top marks!

Al.

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#119832 - 04/19/04 05:45 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Uriel Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 764
Darkest,

A few years ago a dutch kid (okay over 18 years old) died at the US Open due to a head shot.

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#119833 - 04/20/04 03:46 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
blackbelt83 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/20/04
Posts: 10
Loc: Springdale, AR
I know at my school head kicks are allowed. In fact I've never heard that they weren't. Besides, they're useful. Throw a few kicks towards your opponet's stomach, FAKE a kick to their stomach and then when they go to block simply introduce your foot to their head. It works, I've seen it done. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

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#119834 - 04/20/04 05:15 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Uriel Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 764
Kicking to the head in tournaments...

With children sometimes it is not allowed.
Sometimes it is allowed with very strict "power" rules in place.

In underbelts there was the "no blood" rule when dealing with kicks to the head (olympic sport) in some organizations (not schools...organizations)

In black belt (adult) it usually is whatever goes. There has been some cases where I saw things like "no blood" or "no viscious contact" which, to me, is a poor thing to limit blackbelts on.

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#119835 - 11/23/04 06:58 PM Re: High kicks- why bother?
Anonymous
Unregistered


simpely ending fights with out getting close
enough to get punched. also when they are leagal in sparing they're worth an extra point. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

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