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#118740 - 03/20/03 07:12 AM Re: on the roundhouse.
MrVigerous Offline
Former Administrator

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 2498
Loc: UK
Surely gents, a spinning side thrust kick must when properly executed constitute the most potentialy powerful. The physiological aspects that come together to propel this technique would certainly point to this being the case.

Regds
Mr V

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#118741 - 03/20/03 08:16 AM Re: on the roundhouse.
UKfightfreak Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco
I don't really know about this but Shotokai (orthodox shotokan) do not have any thrust or spinning kicks.

They advocate snap kicks only.

Anyone got any ideas?

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#118742 - 03/20/03 09:09 PM Re: on the roundhouse.
Jamoni Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 1514
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
Mr. V, you make a good point about the power of a spinning side kick, but do you feel the danger of turning your back on an opponent is outweighed by the potential power? I do not. I have found spinning kicks to be too easily jammed, especially by a fast wrestler who will shoot for your legs the moment you start to spin.

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#118743 - 03/21/03 06:17 AM Re: on the roundhouse.
taebot Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1166
Loc: KANSAS
That's right Mr. V, IMHE [E for experience].

I was at a tournament in Joplin and they had one of those force kicking shields and had a power competition in which the participant could do any technique. Well, one of the last to go was Master Ali Fathohalli, student of Lee Choon Ahn.

Well Ali hits that kicking shield with the jump-spin side kick and doubled the previous score promting a huddle and a dis-allowal of the technique as being unfair...

He just kept saying, you said ANY technique!

[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

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#118744 - 03/21/03 01:04 PM Re: on the roundhouse.
MrVigerous Offline
Former Administrator

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 2498
Loc: UK
The back turning issue is a fair point which i can't argue with really except to say that this problem can surely be limited with good distancing and judgement as to the correct time to unload the technique. In all honesty i was really replying on the basis that some people suggested that the roundhouse was the most powerful rather than on a strictly practical basis.

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#118745 - 03/21/03 09:11 PM Re: on the roundhouse.
Jamoni Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 1514
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
Oh.

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#118746 - 03/23/03 09:27 PM Re: on the roundhouse.
mikelw Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 1031
Loc: Bothell, Washington (not DC), ...
[QUOTE]Originally posted by senseilou:
Isshin-never say never, it always bites you in the butt, but, I agree none the less.[/QUOTE]
I usually kick with the instep (and yes, it DOES feel weak!), but only because it's the way we practice, and i am afraid of jamming my toes if i attempt to execute a roundhouse kick with the ball of my foot.

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#118747 - 03/24/03 12:11 AM Re: on the roundhouse.
joesixpack Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 2282
Loc: Australia
Shin; blunt force

Foot/instep; slapping force

Ball of the foot/heel; penetrating force

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#118748 - 03/24/03 02:39 AM Re: on the roundhouse.
raccoon Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 848
Loc: Victoria BC Canada
I am speaking from the receiving end...

I have to agree with Joe. The instep is a slap, the shin is ... brunt and brutal.

When I first started contact karate, I winced at every slap (instep) on my quad. I get bruises that are 7 inches in diameter. But I can still seiza/walk without much discomfort. After some conditionings, the slaps still sting, but it doesn't stop me from fighting. It's pain without damage.

With the shin kicks... I don't know if you can "tough it out". It's not uncommon to see "waza-ari"/ "ippon kachi" at kyokushin world championship from shin-to-quad kicks; the fighter on the receiving end simply can't stand on the offended leg.

From first hand experience - there is no bruise on the surface, it's not a stinging pain - it's a "sh*t did that son-of-a-bee broke my leg?" pain. Bending the injured leg at the knee for any more than 30 degrees is excruciatingly painful for a few weeks. I tried to tough it out once, I stayed "standing" for the rest of the fight until timeout, but I was as good as a punchbag - my muscle was so damaged I couldn't lift my knee to block, I could hardly shift my weight. The fight WAS over at the moment the shin landed squarely on my quad.

I am not familiar with the "ball of the foot jab", the only time I practice it is during kihon and the rare join-dojo practices. My dojo doesn't use it much, I was told it doesn't do enough damage. And from what I've taken - I have to agree.

-raccoon

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#118749 - 03/24/03 03:59 AM Re: on the roundhouse.
MrVigerous Offline
Former Administrator

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 2498
Loc: UK
Though i absolutely believe that your personal and or spectating experience of the ball of the foot roundhouse kick has not lead you to be impressed by it, I would disagree with any asertion that is is weaker that the instep variety. I certainly agree that some people dont deliver the ball of the foot roundhouse correctly or with sufficient force, either because as sugested earlier, they are afraid of damaging their toes or secondly because they find it harder to do head hight roundhouse kicks with the foot in this position. Simply on the basis of force against surface area of impact the ball of the foot must be more damaging. It also lestens the effect of "give" in the foot that occurs when the instep is used, thus reducing penetration of the target. Certainly if I was due to break something with a roundhouse kick i wouldn't use the instep. The shin possibly but never the instep. The one quite handy use of the instep roundhouse is i would agree when delivered in a downward cutting arc against the thigh or side of the knee.

Regds
Mr V


[This message has been edited by MrVigerous (edited 03-24-2003).]

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