Cato, it has nothing to do with an open mind. And while we may not be the ones getting beat the problem is that these schools are letting people think that they can protect themselves when they cant. I dont believe in misleading people and that is exactly what they are doing.

Chen Zen, you say you don't believe in misleading people. Then don't. But you can't change what others believe, and there are enough scam artists and enough gullible people that crap will always be represented as gold, and always be taken as such. The only thing you can change in life is your own behaviour. Other peoples beliefs can only be dealt with, not changed.

I have to agree. I think that the reason people cant change is because they are afraid to open their eyes. It is unfortunate that these people later have to learn the hard way in a real ordeal.

I think it is a massively sweeping statement to label ALL sports styles as misleading or disrespectfull. Of course there are charlatans who operate sports dojo's, just as there are some in traditional styles, but to dismiss the whole range of sports styles as having no benefit is, I think, going too far.

I think it is insulting and discourteous in the extreme to suggest styles that incorporate some sporting applications, like Judo, Karate or TKD, are worthless and soehow inferior.

98% of people do not have to deal with a real ordeal. I did as a bouncer and crowd control, but I put myself in that situation. And yes, the competitive experience was very useful in getting looks at different attacks from new opponenets of many styles. It also helped develop calmness in the pocket. Opened my mind too...

By no means am I denouncing all sport schools or any particular style (although TKD is plagued by this) I am protesting the places that say "We teach self defense- learn to protect your family" Then they teach you how to win tournaments. Tournament and street strategy are miles apart.

Exactly why is it one cannot do both?

Cannot one be fluent in more than one language?

Cannot one earn degrees in more than one discipine?

Cannot one hold black belts in more than one style?

Cannot one also have a snickerdoodle kicking contest? [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

Im am not saying one could not do both but do not present on as the other, thats all. As for that contest HHHHIIIIYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAA!!! [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

Some guy was out hunting, and he shot a duck. The duck fell right into a 300lb farmers field, and by the time the hunter got there, the farmer had the duck.
"Thanks for getting my duck," said the hunter.
"Your duck? It landed in my field, so it's MY duck." Said the farmer.
"I'll tell you what," said the hunter. "I'll Ro-sham-bo you for it."
"Whats that?"
"It's a nut kicking contest. We take turns kicking each other in the nuts until one of us quits. The winner gets the duck."
"Alright,"says the farmer, and the hunter hauled off and kicked him in the jimmies so hard he passed out.
When he comes to, he says to the hunter: "Alright, now it's MY TURN!"
"Ah, you win," said the hunter. "keep the f-ing duck."

[This message has been edited by Jamoni (edited 03-15-2003).]