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#118536 - 07/10/03 12:18 PM Re: Stretching
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
LOL! You misunderstand I think. I have no problem with my kicks its just not for me to start out that way. I usually stretch every morning and for the rest of the day Im perfectly functional. Its not for me to wake up and throw an ax kick first, but thats why I stretch first. On the street or in the dojo I have no problems stretching or throwing high kicks. Ive just always believed that there are some things that you cant rush into. Ive never been injured from stretching or in the dojo from lack thereof so to me I feel like Im doing something right and Im more flexible than ever. To each his own, and your approach may work for you but for me its different as Im sure it is with most people. Everyone has something different and new to contribute which is why we're here right? [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

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#118537 - 07/10/03 12:42 PM Re: Stretching
UKfightfreak Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco
But I still don't understand why anyone would do static stretches for dynamic movement - it makes no sense at all.

This is really nothing to do with preference, but to do with the fact that dojos all over the world teach their students static stretches as a part of a warm up which is wrong.

Lets get rid of the axe kick analogy as well. Axe kicks are not leg swings - leg swings are dynamic stretching exercises these should be done fairly quickly but not forcefully - not like an axe kick where you force you leg down. You should not feel tired after performing these exercises, they should be preparing you for the work ahead.

Besides static stretching being a slow (and pointless) process for preperation for kicking it also can be better employed at the END of a workout where it should be. Also if done correctly passive relaxed stretching makes you sleepy - whats the point in getting sleepy in the morning when you have just got out of bed? or when you are about to have a workout?

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#118538 - 07/11/03 03:42 PM Re: Stretching
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
I wopuld like to know where you get your information but I will say this. Every morning when I wake up the very firsst thing I do is stretch my body out as far as I can and yawn. Before I ever get out of bed. Its a natural thing. Why? Because the endorphens from stretching stimulates your mind and wakes you up. I cant comment much on dynamic stretching as I have limited knowledge of it but I know many martial artists who static stretch, in fact they all do even Bruce Lee did. I also know that my flexibility has improved greatly over the years. Thats just my experience.

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#118539 - 07/11/03 04:35 PM Re: Stretching
Isshin Dude Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/03
Posts: 480
Loc: Knoxville Tennessee U.S.A
[QUOTE]Originally posted by UKfightfreak:
But I still don't understand why anyone would do static stretches for dynamic movement - it makes no sense at all.

This is really nothing to do with preference, but to do with the fact that dojos all over the world teach their students static stretches as a part of a warm up which is wrong.

Lets get rid of the axe kick analogy as well. Axe kicks are not leg swings - leg swings are dynamic stretching exercises these should be done fairly quickly but not forcefully - not like an axe kick where you force you leg down. You should not feel tired after performing these exercises, they should be preparing you for the work ahead.

Besides static stretching being a slow (and pointless) process for preperation for kicking it also can be better employed at the END of a workout where it should be. Also if done correctly passive relaxed stretching makes you sleepy - whats the point in getting sleepy in the morning when you have just got out of bed? or when you are about to have a workout?
[/QUOTE]UKFF Good post. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

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#118540 - 07/12/03 09:31 AM Re: Stretching
Ender Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/29/03
Posts: 2253
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Actually, contrary to popular belief you should NOT stretch every day, but every other day.

I knoiw from experience, as in the last few weeks I was stretching my groin heavily every day, and was developing pain (which would become chronic if i hadnt stopped) in my hips and knees from pressure.

Doing it every other day gives your muscles and ligaments time to rest.

Don't over due it, and have patience.

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#118541 - 07/12/03 08:29 PM Re: Stretching
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ender, when I was your age I use to "stretch" my groin almost everyday to.The urge to do so goes away as you get older, or get a girlfriend. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

Sorry about confusion regarding axe kick for stretch, leg swings is what I meant.

I use a combination of dynamic and static stretches.Never gotten sleepy from static stretches,relaxed and invigorated yes,sleepy no.

Agree that machines are garbage.

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#118542 - 07/13/03 05:05 PM Re: Stretching
UKfightfreak Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ender:
Actually, contrary to popular belief you should NOT stretch every day, but every other day.

I knoiw from experience, as in the last few weeks I was stretching my groin heavily every day, and was developing pain (which would become chronic if i hadnt stopped) in my hips and knees from pressure.

Doing it every other day gives your muscles and ligaments time to rest.

Don't over due it, and have patience.
[/QUOTE]

You should have no problem with practising dynamic stretches and static relaxed stretches everyday. They should not cause you pain - if they are it may be an indication of either a weakness in your legs and/or back, or an imbalance of muscle strength (a really common one is very strong quads with hams and adductors lagging behind) or possibly just overdoing i.e. going to fast to soon.

It may be worth examining your strength programme and your stretching technique.

As I, along with many friends practice dynamic stretches every morning and relaxed stretches after training and sometimes before bed.

I mean think about the Yoga people out there who practice all the time!!! Come on Yoga people back me up!!

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#118543 - 07/13/03 05:20 PM Re: Stretching
UKfightfreak Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chen Zen:
I wopuld like to know where you get your information but I will say this. Every morning when I wake up the very firsst thing I do is stretch my body out as far as I can and yawn. Before I ever get out of bed. Its a natural thing. Why? Because the endorphens from stretching stimulates your mind and wakes you up. I cant comment much on dynamic stretching as I have limited knowledge of it but I know many martial artists who static stretch, in fact they all do even Bruce Lee did. I also know that my flexibility has improved greatly over the years. Thats just my experience.[/QUOTE]

Try linking to the stretching section on this site - that is a good place to start.

Alternatively go to www.stadion.com/column.html for a really good list of articles regarding stretching that dispell a lot of the myths about stretching.

Also, I'm sorry just because Bruce Lee did it doesn't make it right - he injured himself once so badley due to incorrect training that he couldn't walk for a long time - don't believe the film his back injury wasn't from a death match style fight it was from incorrect strength training.

I also think its about time I shut up about stretching as nobody can seem to be bothered to read anything (even the stuff thats on this site!!) and I can't be bothered to keep trying to explain stuff that an expert has already written much better than I have. So I will have my last rant and call it a day.

So, I will continue to be happy with the full front splits (toes up and down) and the side splits I can perform with no warm-up that don't and have never caused me pain in my muscles or joints (I'm no freak either I have showed the tom kurz method to many friends and training partners with similar results) and everyone else who can't be bothered to do any home work can struggle in a slow ineffective manner believing the splits and amazing flexibility is something that takes years - where it should only take weeks - fine.

Just ask yourself two questions:

1. How long have I been training?
2. Have I got great flexibility? (e.g. can I kick to the head with no warm-up and be able to achieve a split)

If the answer to number 1. is above a year and the answer to number 2. is 'No' then you are stretching wrong.

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#118544 - 07/13/03 10:05 PM Re: Stretching
Scott Miller Offline
Member

Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 30
Loc: Garland, TX USA
I think leg stretchers are pure evil. I borrowed one from a 2nd degree BB Kenpo friend of mine, and after using it for 5-6 times, gave it back. It temporarily damaged my inner thigh muscles, for two weeks I was sore, and I didn't crank my legs to maximum stretch for too long, either. In other words, I didn't abuse the machine.

I'm 42 yrs old, and getting back in martial arts after being out a few years, and need to regain lost flexibility. I'm finding that Tom Kurz's system is working best for me, and bio-mechanically makes the best sense as a fast and safe method to gaining strength AND flexibility.

I'm also using dynamic stretches as taught by Matt Furey, such as hindu squats and the neck bridge. Static stretching, as a method to increase flexibility, simply doesn't work nearly as well as dynamic stretching and isometrics -- but for both of these to work well, build core (abs, back, sides, hip) strength and leg strength.

Leg stretchers are static stretching devices, and therefore they have little chance of working well on their own.

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