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#118526 - 03/18/03 07:00 AM Re: Stretching
taebot Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1166
Loc: KANSAS
You are doing well with your English, especially compared to some of the offerings by the native speakers.

I like to combine stretching and warmup. your muscles need to be warm to relax and stretch. Also stretching needs to be done daily, if not twice daily. Flexibility is the hardest to achieve (considering strength and aerobic as the other two important aspects of martial training) and the quickest lost.

One of my teachers, Ken Baker, speaks Italian and goes to Italy to train. You two could talk!

[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

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#118527 - 05/13/03 06:03 AM Re: Stretching
UKfightfreak Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco
[QUOTE]Originally posted by taebot:
You are doing well with your English, especially compared to some of the offerings by the native speakers.

I like to combine stretching and warmup. your muscles need to be warm to relax and stretch. Also stretching needs to be done daily, if not twice daily. Flexibility is the hardest to achieve (considering strength and aerobic as the other two important aspects of martial training) and the quickest lost.

One of my teachers, Ken Baker, speaks Italian and goes to Italy to train. You two could talk!

[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]
[/QUOTE]

I would disagree with this, maximal dynamic flexibility (the one you need for kicking) can be reached in 8 to 10 weeks.

I think it is far easier to develop flexibility than strengh, power and endurance.

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#118528 - 05/18/03 02:37 PM Re: Stretching
Glashopper Offline
Member

Registered: 05/17/03
Posts: 34
Loc: Omaha, NE USA
I'm the new guy and UKfightfreak advised me to check out this area in regards to my problem with flexibility. I've been using the stretching machine for over a full year and I'm only up to 120 degrees on a good day.
I purchased the book,"Stretching Scientifically" by Kurz and found it so damn dull that I put it away. After reading this thread, I have pulled it out again and will give it an honest try and follow through with the instructions. Thanks for the interesting thread! This is something I've been stumbling over for a year now.
I don't feel so bad after seeing some younger students who have this same problem and I know it's not any easier on them

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#118529 - 05/19/03 05:59 AM Re: Stretching
UKfightfreak Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco
Most Martial Artists stretch wrong.

Most Martial Artists are too weak to kick.

Most Martial Artists trust there instructors on stretching, although the instructor has relatively poor flexibility themselves.

If you walk into a TKD class and most of the class can't do the splits, especially the black belts - they are not stretching effectively.

So to summarise:

Get strong, especially your lower back, stomach and legs.

Do the right stretches:

Pre-workout = dynamic stretching, if you sit and do a slow stretch before a workout - it is wrong.

Post workout = static passive stretching, this is the stuff that most are used to, the slow process of waiting and relaxing in a stretch.

Isometrics can be done pre cool down about 4 times a week after Martial arts workouts and strength workouts, but only if you are strong enought - can you deadlift twice your body weight for 1 or 2 reps - No? dont do Isometrics.

If you perform relaxed stretches only for your martial arts training - you are stretching wrong.

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#118530 - 07/08/03 09:41 AM Re: Stretching
smittenkittenTKD Offline
Member

Registered: 06/29/03
Posts: 232
Loc: MI usa
its important to do the right stretches for the right movments....ie reverse butterflies for rounhouses and calf stretches for upright jumping kicks....

throwing a few mid range kicks slowly and without power also increases flexibility...a lot! lol

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#118531 - 07/09/03 01:52 AM Re: Stretching
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
You should stretch slow. Putting about 2 minutes into each specific stretch. You should stretch until just outside of the pain barrier and hold it there. 2 or 3 times a day and before any workout or sparring match. Machines are garbage. Also to help in flexibility and strength raise your leg straight out slowly and go as high as you can and hold it. Do this three time with each leg to the front side and back. Hold the first one for 1 minute and the last to for 45 seconds each. Hard to make yourself do but well worth the effort.

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#118532 - 07/09/03 07:18 AM Re: Stretching
UKfightfreak Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chen Zen:
You should stretch slow. Putting about 2 minutes into each specific stretch. You should stretch until just outside of the pain barrier and hold it there. 2 or 3 times a day and before any workout or sparring match. Machines are garbage. Also to help in flexibility and strength raise your leg straight out slowly and go as high as you can and hold it. Do this three time with each leg to the front side and back. Hold the first one for 1 minute and the last to for 45 seconds each. Hard to make yourself do but well worth the effort.[/QUOTE]

Only as a COOL DOWN doing these type of stretches before dynamic kicking is MORE likely to lead to injury.

I have never met anyone who has pulled a muscle warming up with dynamic stretches (leg swings etc.) I have seen it many times with people who warm up with static stretches.

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#118533 - 07/09/03 04:06 PM Re: Stretching
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
I have to take it slow. If I go in and start trying to stretch by throwing out some ax kicks then my hamstrings are destroyed. I think it comes down to what you are used to. I find that most people who get injured doing stretches often are doing them incorrectly.

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#118534 - 07/10/03 04:17 AM Re: Stretching
UKfightfreak Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chen Zen:
I have to take it slow. If I go in and start trying to stretch by throwing out some ax kicks then my hamstrings are destroyed. I think it comes down to what you are used to. I find that most people who get injured doing stretches often are doing them incorrectly.[/QUOTE]

That just means that your dynamic flexiblity is poor, you still need to work up slowley and smoothly - you don't just throw your leg in the highest axe kick possible - thats how to get injured.

If you work on your dynamic flexibility each morning (warmup for a few mins and do some joint rotations) then do leg swings starting low do around 12, and repeat.

It should take you about a week to notice the difference in both training and non-warmup flexibility (e.g. I can kick to head hieght at any time of the day with no warm up)

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#118535 - 07/10/03 04:23 AM Re: Stretching
UKfightfreak Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chen Zen:
I find that most people who get injured doing stretches often are doing them incorrectly.[/QUOTE]

Yes - and you are doing them incorrectly and therefore are likely to get injured.

You said this yourself - if you threw an axe kick you would destroy your hamstrings!!

What is the point of learning how to kick if you need to say 'Hang on a minute mate, just give me half and hour to warm and stretch and I will be able to hammer you into the ground'

Although I wouldn't do a whole training session without warming up - I have no problem in throwing high kicks.

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