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#118404 - 01/18/03 11:54 AM Re: Why Does tkd have high kicks?
taebot Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1166
Loc: KANSAS
Cato - You simply missed the tounge-in-cheek or are replying in king.

Let's try this approach. [Devil's Advocate]

Assume I am A TKD stylist (not a stretch). I may advance, using IK's logic, the following argument. The Isshynryu verticle fist is a non-effective self-defense technique. How do I know? If it worked, we'd do it our system so obviously our masters knew something your one lone guy didn't know.

However, having compared notes in the training hall (i.e., putting on the gloves) and having been trained by a respected Sifu, I know exactly how effective the techinique can be expecially shooting up from the center line into the opponent's sternum, especially in rapid-fire sequences.

Again, my point being, as martial artists, we do a lot of things that might not be applicable to self-defense. I often view my kama practice as just one such thing.

So why does Tae Kwon Do have high kicks? Maybe it makes your lower kicks more effective. Maybe it makes your body stronger. Maybe it gives you a weapon to use at distance. You don't need to let every assault end in battery. Yes, I can let you get into reverse punch range, but, but, IF I get lucky with the boot to the head, I don't have too. If I miss, I can still throw a real good verticle punch straigh to the 'ol kisser...

[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

And maybe, just maybe it's a lot of fun in sparring to pretent you're Chuck Norris or Bill Wallace...

I know I do!

Every once in a while (like this morning!).

[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

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#118405 - 01/18/03 07:08 PM Re: Why Does tkd have high kicks?
isshinryu kid Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 618
Loc: Knoxville tennessee u.s.a
[QUOTE]Originally posted by taebot:
Cato - You simply missed the tounge-in-cheek or are replying in king.

Let's try this approach. [Devil's Advocate]

Assume I am A TKD stylist (not a stretch). I may advance, using IK's logic, the following argument. The Isshynryu verticle fist is a non-effective self-defense technique. How do I know? If it worked, we'd do it our system so obviously our masters knew something your one lone guy didn't know.

However, having compared notes in the training hall (i.e., putting on the gloves) and having been trained by a respected Sifu, I know exactly how effective the techinique can be expecially shooting up from the center line into the opponent's sternum, especially in rapid-fire sequences.

Again, my point being, as martial artists, we do a lot of things that might not be applicable to self-defense. I often view my kama practice as just one such thing.

So why does Tae Kwon Do have high kicks? Maybe it makes your lower kicks more effective. Maybe it makes your body stronger. Maybe it gives you a weapon to use at distance. You don't need to let every assault end in battery. Yes, I can let you get into reverse punch range, but, but, IF I get lucky with the boot to the head, I don't have too. If I miss, I can still throw a real good verticle punch straigh to the 'ol kisser...

[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

And maybe, just maybe it's a lot of fun in sparring to pretent you're Chuck Norris or Bill Wallace...

I know I do!

Every once in a while (like this morning!).

[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]
[/QUOTE]When a white blt 1st learns the verticle punch.He must take it slow & easy,Exactness of movement.So he's muscels can get' Used to it.But by the time'He's a green bl,He can give the verticle punch, Aloud Snap.& As a brown blt,He can make alouder snap,With the vericle punch,But gnerate more power,by using the hip.& Not long after becoming a blk blt,He must learn the body dynamics to go with it. IN Other words,The practitioner is will no longer be stagnate.While the feet are shoulder width apart.& Ur weight should be equally distributed Take a half of a step, Of the left foot,The toe must be behind the heel of the lead foot.& As the fist is chamberd,Push back with the left foot foward,& foward with the right foot back.& As u are turning,the power of the back ft.which will then take u to the leg,& Then to the hip.& Then to the side of the body, & Then to the shoulder.& then the the energy is going to the arm,While ur body's turning,to the fist, while u let air out for extra power.So It is realy the power from the LFF,Being transferd to the Right back ft.& Then to the leg,Hip,& to the side of the body,Or ribs.& It all goes in to the shoulder,arm & fist.All of which is called,Opposite reaction force.& The best part about the vericle punch, Is u don't no it's coming. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]



[This message has been edited by isshinryu kid (edited 01-18-2003).]

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#118406 - 01/19/03 04:07 AM Re: Why Does tkd have high kicks?
taebot Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1166
Loc: KANSAS
Same thing with jump-spin crescent kick [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] !

Here's a little something I was going to add for you yesterday, but my daughter just HAD to play pinball (for all of five minutes, but what are you gonna do? She's four and thinks she is the center of the universe...).

So, here goes:

I note your concern for the aging Taekwondo practioners. I just turned 45 and still have no problems with high kicks. We have a 50+ black belt/yoga enthusiast who can easily kick to the head. Jhoon Rhee is as old as dirt, and look at what he can do.

But I know a lot of middle-aged sixth degrees who couldnít find the dojo if the master ever moved, if you catch my drift.

So donít fret. Us old guys are still alive and kickiní!

[This message has been edited by taebot (edited 01-19-2003).]

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#118407 - 01/19/03 08:11 AM Re: Why Does tkd have high kicks?
isshinryu kid Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 618
Loc: Knoxville tennessee u.s.a
[QUOTE]Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha! [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] Well in isshinryu we kick to the groin, which I know is against the rules in taecrapdo.For example,A tkd stylist, came to the dojo,& Wanted to fight someone.Well that someone was me,It was'nt long after we got into the ring,That he tried a high kick. BIG MISTAKE,AS soon as he did that I kicked him in the groin. He Cried like a baby, [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/redface.gif[/IMG]& Complained to my instructor.As the senoir blts, told him that in isshinryu it was aloud.Any he left crying,& complaining,& Still waering his protective vest.I Gotta tell u waering a vest is for babies.In Isshinryu we protect ourelves with letting out our breath as we're being hit. I Guess some people havta learn the hard way [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]

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#118408 - 01/19/03 08:12 AM Re: Why Does tkd have high kicks?
taebot Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1166
Loc: KANSAS
Hey, IK, indulge me a moment. I am about to go to a workout with a group that I admire and respect, maybe for the last time, as my wife's career calls for us to relocate over to Cape Gerardeau (sp?) so I am a bit reflective today, even nostalgic as I think about some of the times and place where I've had to say goodbye.

It finaly soak into my oft-battered skull, IsshynRyu, Tennessee, ...

Ever run across a good 'ol boy name of Jerry Sullivan?

I know a good story that ties into this thread.

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#118409 - 01/19/03 05:23 PM Re: Why Does tkd have high kicks?
Swordfish Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/10/01
Posts: 22
IK,

I find your arguments childish and offensive. Does your martial art teach you about respect? Well how about respecting the techniques of other forms of martial arts. I am an instructor of TKD and in saying that, I still do not know everything about my art. I think it is very ignorant of you to rubbish the techniques of TKD as you don't seem to have an understanding of them. And as for calling TKD "tae crapdo" .... well, your credibility on this thread has just gone right out of the window!

And did you ever stop to consider that the TKD practioner that you kicked low was not aware that this was a legal move and therefore was not expecting such a low blow? And to be frank, you should have had more control over your technique so as not to cause great pain to your new opponent.

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#118410 - 01/19/03 06:43 PM Re: Why Does tkd have high kicks?
Jeniko Offline
Member

Registered: 06/20/02
Posts: 126
Loc: England
I once was sparring with a guy who done tae kwon do, it was semi contact and he seemed very cocky about it, he'd been doing it for a year and a half and i've only been doing kung fu for 7 months. So he was acting really cocky about it. I set him up for a trap and waited for him to approach, as he did i done a stop side kick into his side and it sent him down to the floor ( he was winded) . I didn't mean to do it and i appologised alot for it as it wasn't intentional. but once he got up he was fine and shook my hand and told me it was a good kick, i was still saying sorry for it and it wasn't suppost to hurt him, more to stop him.

and i felt kinda bad about it [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/frown.gif[/IMG]

I don't know how someone can have the ignorance to call tae kwon do a crap art as it's not, i've started it now as i get taught privately with me and my friend and i love it. I like the variety of it. And considering the head is a fragile part of the human body containing the brain which if stuck hard enough can cause dizzyness and instablility i think if the situation is right a high kick is worth a try.

I think IK should try to open his mind abit and get some self control.

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#118411 - 01/20/03 05:30 AM Re: Why Does tkd have high kicks?
isshinryu kid Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 618
Loc: Knoxville tennessee u.s.a
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jeniko:
I once was sparring with a guy who done tae kwon do, it was semi contact and he seemed very cocky about it, he'd been doing it for a year and a half and i've only been doing kung fu for 7 months. So he was acting really cocky about it. I set him up for a trap and waited for him to approach, as he did i done a stop side kick into his side and it sent him down to the floor ( he was winded) . I didn't mean to do it and i appologised alot for it as it wasn't intentional. but once he got up he was fine and shook my hand and told me it was a good kick, i was still saying sorry for it and it wasn't suppost to hurt him, more to stop him.

and i felt kinda bad about it [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/frown.gif[/IMG]

I don't know how someone can have the ignorance to call tae kwon do a crap art as it's not, i've started it now as i get taught privately with me and my friend and i love it. I like the variety of it. And considering the head is a fragile part of the human body containing the brain which if stuck hard enough can cause dizzyness and instablility i think if the situation is right a high kick is worth a try.

I think IK should try to open his mind abit and get some self control.
[/QUOTE]Let Me clarify,I am talking about sport tkd.But in the real world,Most fights will be close.To close for a high kick.& where as one technique might coz dizziness.A Kick to the Knee,& U disable the agressor.Why? So he wont try it again. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] PS NO INSULT WAS INTENDED. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

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#118412 - 01/20/03 05:45 AM Re: Why Does tkd have high kicks?
taebot Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1166
Loc: KANSAS
Swordfish

In a way, your reply was of the same.
Take out the personal and just make the argument. Teaching is teaching and we teach by example. There are better, more civil ways to refute his contention and that is what we strive to do.

Back in about '84 I was making the transition from the strictly controlled world of Korean-led Taekwondo to the more Open American martial arts scene. We were down at the local Karate club and I had the opportunity to spar an Isshynryu guy for the first time, a much more experienced black belt and tournament competitor, i.e., IK, he was just plain better than me (going back to someone's, oh well, so you took advantage of someone not as good as you...).

I scored the first point, roundkick to the head. He cleaned my clock on the next point, a backfist. Not much else matters, other than I learned a lot from him that day and have always been grateful for the opportunity.

He hadn't trained much against a head kick it seems.

I hadn't trained at all for hands to the head.

Not one style, technique, system, or school of thought is either completely perfect or imperfect.

yin

yang

(Not you [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] the concept!)

[This message has been edited by taebot (edited 01-20-2003).]

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#118413 - 01/20/03 05:48 AM Re: Why Does tkd have high kicks?
taebot Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1166
Loc: KANSAS
PS - At our TKD school we train with the groin and now account for it in doing forms...

Based on my open-minded attitude towards learning from other styles and seeing without prejudice just what they were offering.

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