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#118343 - 11/08/02 06:47 AM How useful?
theqwertyone Offline
Member

Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 30
How useful would people say TKD was in a street fight?

After reading the posts, I'd guess that it got more relevant (to s/fighting) once 1st dan has been reached, but what are people's thoughts?

What about compared to other M/A's?

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#118344 - 01/03/03 12:31 PM Re: How useful?
bunkaikid Offline
Member

Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 42
[QUOTE]Originally posted by theqwertyone:
How useful would people say TKD was in a street fight?

After reading the posts, I'd guess that it got more relevant (to s/fighting) once 1st dan has been reached, but what are people's thoughts?

What about compared to other M/A's?
[/QUOTE]

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#118345 - 01/03/03 12:36 PM Re: How useful?
bunkaikid Offline
Member

Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 42
I think that TKD is very useful for street fighting if you learn to change your thought patterns. Reaching your BB at any level does not make you a good fighter, it only means you understand the moves and can execute them when commanded.
Quote "Advanced techniques are just the basics mastered"

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#118346 - 01/04/03 06:58 AM Re: How useful?
isshinryu kid Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 618
Loc: Knoxville tennessee u.s.a
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bunkaikid:
I think that TKD is very useful for street fighting if you learn to change your thought patterns. Reaching your BB at any level does not make you a good fighter, it only means you understand the moves and can execute them when commanded.
Quote "Advanced techniques are just the basics mastered"

[/QUOTE]I Disagree with the bunkai kid 100%.First of all if ya kick high in a street fight is a no no,You shld keep your kicks low as you want to disable your foe.& with all that kicking going,You havto wonder if tkd has any hand tecniques. :P




[This message has been edited by isshinryu kid (edited 01-04-2003).]

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#118347 - 01/04/03 03:19 PM Re: How useful?
judderman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 1400
Loc: UK
[/QUOTE]I Disagree with the bunkai kid 100%.First of all if ya kick high in a street fight is a no no,You shld keep your kicks low as you want to disable your foe.& with all that kicking going,You havto wonder if tkd has any hand tecniques. :P


[This message has been edited by isshinryu kid (edited 01-04-2003).][/QUOTE]


I agree with isshin about the high kicks. However, I train from time to time with a TKD teacher. Trust me, there are enough punches, locks/holds, throws, take downs and strikes in TKD to keep you amused in a fight.

As far as street fighting is concerned, many "traditional" styles will give you not a lot more than a second or two faster reaction than the average joe bloggs on the street.

Budo.

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#118348 - 01/05/03 06:25 PM Re: How useful?
bunkaikid Offline
Member

Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 42
To the Isshinryu kid and judderman, you are absolutely right about the highkicks, however,I was talking about the mental aspects. You need to prepare in your mind how the techniques need to be done. They can be done in many ways. I am not a fan of high kicking and do not find it practical either, but if you are open minded you can make any style work for you. If there is one thing I have learned in the MA, it is never underestimate your opponent or their style, it may come back to bite you later.

bunkaikid

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#118349 - 01/06/03 04:41 AM Re: How useful?
Cato Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 1636
As someone who has never pracised TKD I'm not really in a position to give an opinion on its street effectiveness. I do however think that as a martial art it is suffering the same as Judo and Karate inasmuch that it has become a sport. Far too much competition fighting and far too little practice of the art in its original form has resulted in a proliferation of techniques and strategies designed for tournament fighting.

In it's fullest for, I would think no-one would question TKD as a street effective system, just as Judo and karate are excellent martial arts if practised as such. To borrow from senseilou, it all about the approach you apply to the art, not the art itself.

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#118350 - 01/15/03 03:10 AM Re: How useful?
WrAiTh21 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 8
I agree with the comments on high kicks, especially if you are up against multiple aggressors, in that situation they can leave you particularly vulnerable.

But Cato, Taekwondo suffering from becoming a sport? Read the article at http://www.judoinfo.com/sport.htm



[This message has been edited by WrAiTh21 (edited 01-15-2003).]

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#118351 - 01/15/03 06:35 AM Re: How useful?
isshinryu kid Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 618
Loc: Knoxville tennessee u.s.a
[QUOTE]Originally posted by WrAiTh21:
I agree with the comments on high kicks, especially if you are up against multiple aggressors, in that situation they can leave you particularly vulnerable.

But Cato, Taekwondo suffering from becoming a sport? Read the article at http://www.judoinfo.com/sport.htm

[This message has been edited by WrAiTh21 (edited 01-15-2003).]
[/QUOTE] Hey Wraith stay away from the all hype websites,& stick with the truth. & That is that high kicks wont work in the street.

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#118352 - 01/15/03 08:25 AM Re: How useful?
isshinryu kid Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 618
Loc: Knoxville tennessee u.s.a
[QUOTE]

[This message has been edited by isshinryu kid (edited 01-15-2003).]

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#118353 - 02/14/03 07:36 PM Re: How useful?
Jamoni Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 1514
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
High kicks, like all techniques, have inevitable advantages and disadvantages that must be taken into account before using them in a given situation. Although I would probably not choose to use one in combat, I have seen them used to good effect. I have personally used a high snap kick to the chin against a boxer, who clocked me with a left hook at the same time. Those were the only two attacks thrown, and the end result was a double KO. So I would say my snap kick is at least as effective as a left hook, no matter how lousy my defense was!

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#118354 - 02/16/03 04:52 AM Re: How useful?
taebot Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1166
Loc: KANSAS
Who said that training in TKD means you're gonna try to kick to the head?

But I like that misconception. Next time I fight IK, I'm gonna yell, "Hey, Isshyn!, It's me! taebot!"

When his hands go up, I'll kick him in the "knees!"

[Well what did you expect me to say? I am a man of wealth and taste!]

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#118355 - 02/16/03 04:55 AM Re: How useful?
taebot Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1166
Loc: KANSAS
Since I don't engage in street-fighting, I will tell you it was useful as a bouncer and as concert security (I just loved being down in the front pit much to the detrement of my hearing acuity...).

So was my training as a high school wrestler.

And all the lickings that my sisters gave me.

The Shotokan was helpful too!

And the Judo...

And the Arnis...

And mean, mean, men as teachers...

YIKES!

[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

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#118356 - 02/19/03 04:25 PM Re: How useful?
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
first off i have to disagree with all the naysayers who say high kicks have no place in fighting. a high roundhouse kick saved my life. now as for the effectiveness of tkd in a street fight? well i have been doing m/a's for 13 yrs with tkd as my foundation. if you go to a good school that isnt tournament based, and you have a good teacher then tkd can do wonders. it functions well with other ma's, you will find much of the same stances and techniques in other sytems, the ability to blend with other styles into tkd, all of these have made it possible for me to never lose a fight. thats not to say i havent been hurt and i dont want to give all the credit to tkd but it is my foundation and i can say it works. the technique that defeats you is anything except what you have trained for.

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#118357 - 02/20/03 04:48 AM Re: How useful?
taebot Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1166
Loc: KANSAS
What he said!

[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]

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#118358 - 04/16/03 09:43 AM Re: How useful?
applegm Offline
Member

Registered: 04/15/03
Posts: 58
Loc: Hong Kong
so TKD does work well when it comes to Street-
fighting right?

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#118359 - 04/17/03 05:52 AM Re: How useful?
Cato Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 1636
The concensus would be that high kicks have a place in street fights. Okay, that may be so. All I can say is that from the street fights I've seen, I have never seen an effective kick above the waist. But then I rarely see two people square off and spar in a street fight. From those I've seen the opportunity to kick disappears very, very quickly as the gap closes almost immediately, and a wrestling match ensues.

Now perhaps I've only ever seen fights between people who can't kick properly, I don't know. But the fact remains that the opportunities to do so are severely limited.

I think TKD in its fullest form is a rare beast, but is nonetheless as good a MA as any other. In it's more common sport form TKD is as good a sport as any other. I just wouldn't fancy relying on any sport to defend myself effectively.

Budo

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#118360 - 05/13/03 02:27 PM Re: How useful?
CinciTKD Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 22
Loc: Cincinnati, OH, USA
A high kick would not be my first choice in a street fight. It isn't my first choice in sparring unless I'm using it to set something up.

The high kick in a street fight would most likely be after a the opponet is stunned or on their knees and used as a finishing blow.

Most the the Self-Defense Techniques I drill invole low-roundhouse to the legs or elbows/knees techniques. But if I know I have you stunned/unawares I'll go "Head Hunting."

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#118361 - 05/13/03 02:55 PM Re: How useful?
JohnL Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 4309
Loc: NY, NY, USA
The high kick in a street fight would most likely be after a the opponet is stunned or on their knees and used as a finishing blow.

In which case, it's no longer a high kick.
(With apologies to the 7'6 guys who would prove me wrong)

JohnL

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#118362 - 05/13/03 03:00 PM Re: How useful?
CinciTKD Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 22
Loc: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Since I'm 5 inches shorter then everyone I train with it still is a high kick. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

Ok so may not so much a high kick if they've stumbled or on their knees but if they are just stunned and the hands have dropped.

It is the whole Risk/Reward thing do you risk the nasty shot to the gonads for the chance at impressing the chicks with that high kick when you rescue them.

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#118363 - 05/19/03 08:05 AM Re: How useful?
tong po Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/18/03
Posts: 14
Loc: ohio
[QUOTE]Originally posted by judderman:


[/QUOTE]I Disagree with the bunkai kid 100%.First of all if ya kick high in a street fight is a no no,You shld keep your kicks low as you want to disable your foe.& with all that kicking going,You havto wonder if tkd has any hand tecniques. :P


[This message has been edited by isshinryu kid (edited 01-04-2003).][/QUOTE]


I agree with isshin about the high kicks. However, I train from time to time with a TKD teacher. Trust me, there are enough punches, locks/holds, throws, take downs and strikes in TKD to keep you amused in a fight.

As far as street fighting is concerned, many "traditional" styles will give you not a lot more than a second or two faster reaction than the average joe bloggs on the street.

Budo.[/QUOTE]

a few seconds is all that you need, you could land 3 mor punches or a few more kicks, in a combat situation, seconds count.

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#118364 - 05/22/03 12:03 PM Re: How useful?
immrtldragon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/22/03
Posts: 1540
Loc: Just outside Philadelphia, PA
I keep hearing all this talk about "it's a sport" and "I would not use a sport to defend myself." It's a sport with rules when you compete, not if you fight. Firstly, any (fighting) knowledge is better than no knowledge. Secondly, many sports are combat effective (including Judo and Tkd). Don't believe me...go pick a fight with a trained boxer (also a sport).

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#118365 - 05/22/03 12:25 PM Re: How useful?
UKfightfreak Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco
It also depends on the contact,

Judo is great because it is full contact by design.

TKD - depends on your style but the full contact nature of it can be adapted to the street.

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#118366 - 05/24/03 01:07 AM Re: How useful?
Anonymous
Unregistered


In reply to cato,"judo and karate are effective martial arts if practiced that way."
Judo is a sport, always was a sport.Kano took jujitsu movements and modified them so they were "safe" to practice and use in competition.

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#118367 - 05/24/03 04:44 AM Re: How useful?
UKfightfreak Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco
[QUOTE]Originally posted by nekogami13:
In reply to cato,"judo and karate are effective martial arts if practiced that way."
Judo is a sport, always was a sport.Kano took jujitsu movements and modified them so they were "safe" to practice and use in competition.
[/QUOTE]

Judo was designed to be a sport but as all the techniques are practiced full contact it is excellent for the street, but it needs to be adapted, as with all Martial Arts.

I would say to anyone that if you want to learn good street defence a good start is Judo and boxing. (BJJ is probably better but hey - there is a Judo club in every town in the UK!).

I think JKogas has probably got it right with training BJJ and boxing, and thinking about BJJ, Rick Young actually said that a lot of the BJJ techniques are the same as Judo techniques but the way of learning and emphasis on ground work is just different.

Food for thought but think about the application of your art rather than the art itself.

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#118368 - 05/25/03 02:28 AM Re: How useful?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Never meant to imply judo was not valuable as a means of self defense. Just pointing out it originated as a sport.
Judo seems similar to brazilian jujitsu because judo is derived from jujitsu. Goal of judo is to throw opponent flat on back and score points. Goal of jujitsu(not tournament or sport)is to cripple opponent by breaking limbs.Brazilian jujitsu emphasis is on ground fighting using jujitsu techniques.

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#118369 - 05/26/03 08:39 AM Re: How useful?
Corruptor Offline
Member

Registered: 05/26/03
Posts: 101
I would say that TKD could be very usefull in a fight but it would depend on the skill of the person using there TKD skills. To comment on the subject on weather high kicks are good in a streetfight. Well I done a self defense course through my TKD and the teacher was a 2nd Dan in TKD and Bri Thi, he had also studied Kickboxing, Kung Fu, Kali, Hipkido, Jijitsu and other martial arts. His opinion was that high kicks will not work in streetfights unless you are very good with your kicks, but even this instructor who was great with his feet said that he would prefer to use punches, knees, locks or any other type of defense and offense. My personal opinion is that unless you are good ie. fast and powerfull with your feet then I would not use high kicks.

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#118370 - 06/15/03 12:58 AM Re: How useful?
mrhubbs Offline
Member

Registered: 06/15/03
Posts: 418
Loc: Carmel, NY 10512
Hey Everyone,

I just found this site and was really pleased with the number of interesting discussions going on. As a traditional japanese stylist, I wanted to share my limited experience with TKD.

I had the opportunity to crosstrain very briefly with John Park, son of Olympic coach D.K. Park. Like many people outside of the art, I, too, had my reservations about TKD and its effectiveness. I had simply attended too many point tournaments where weak, slapping front leg roundhouse kicks won the day. These were thrown mostly by korean stylists (although everyone seems to be adopting these scoring techniques nowadays). I was, however, very impressed with Park and his WTF training techniques.

First of all, the conditioning exercises we did were amazing and included a number of plyometric, speed, and timing drills. The kicking combinations and the strategy of setting up the kicks were equally cool. (At the advanced level, leg techniques becomes like a science.) While these things were all geared towards Olympic competition, I think that the qualities they were meant to develop (agility, explosiveness) are equally valuable on the street. In addition, the focus on "trembling shock" meant that techniques were delivered with full power and delivered to a variety of target areas. The students I worked with were very much used to landing techniques with force. I must say that I feel like a better kicker for having worked with Mr. Park.

Do I still question some of the practices associated with "Tae Kwon Do"? Yes. Would I ever practice TKD as my root style? Probably not. I am simply not built to kick with the same finesse as the average TKD stylist. Are there Tae Kwon Do stylists who I would want by my side in a street confrontation. Yup.

I think the point has already been made that much of a style's effectiveness is in the emphasis of the instruction and in the makeup of the practitioner him/herself. I just wanted to take a moment to acknowledge a positive experience with the art.

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#118371 - 06/15/03 11:41 AM Re: How useful?
kempo_jujitsu Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/03
Posts: 1914
Loc: illinois, usa
if you can find a taekwondo school maybe it would be ok...by that i mean not a sport school as 99% of them are these days.
i studied tkd for a year, beat the crap out of my instructor and another 2nd dan at the same time once (not literally!)...he used to make me teach them jujutsu techniques cuz they actually worked.
basically my take on taekwondo for a streetfight...the way its taught...completely useless. if a somewhat experienced practitioner of another art studied tkd..it might be better.
we learned a form..got a belt...learned a form, got a belt, learned a form, broke a board, got a belt..etc ..never any applications of the forms or anything. the self defense techniques the did teach would get you killed on the street. im not a tkd fan at all lol...i competed at the regional championships once for sparring..and i whiped the floor with the guy who won (i placed 3rd)...whats up with that...if you lose you lose lol oh thats right he got more POINTS than i did [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]
i found most of the fighters i fought predictable..its tkd they will try to kick me in the head..spin and kick me in the head, or jump spin and kick me in the head...all of which are easily defended against. and the rules...cant punch to the head????????????????????????????????????
cant kick the back?????????????
nah, ill stick to a combative art.
and i think that most of the reason i beat them easily is because of my previous experience...i realized that you dont have to throw that kick at head level every time (infact its quite stupid to do so)..you dont have to chamber your fist in an actual fight (some of them actually did this!!!)...so basically i think todays taekwondo is bs. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]
not that it couldnt be reformed into a better fighting system.

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