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#117174 - 03/10/04 05:21 PM What makes BJJ different from Judo?

I am a karateka with no deep knowledge of the grappling arts.

I borrowed a Judo book from the library and compared it to the BJJ that I have seen in videos.

They both look like the same thing except BJJ has a triangle choke, modified gaurd and modified rear naked choke...besides that, all other techniques look the same.

Can anyone point out any other difference for me? I'm trying to make a decision on choosing a grappling art.

Right now my heart is set on Sambo, but I am still open to new information.

[This message has been edited by Shotokan (edited 03-10-2004).]

#117175 - 03/10/04 09:06 PM Re: What makes BJJ different from Judo?
White Warlock Offline

Registered: 03/09/04
Posts: 2
Loc: SD, CA
Judo is derived from ju-jutsu (three types). BJJ is as well. The difference is in the focus and depth. Judo focuses on 'sport,' as does BJJ, and essentially removes much of the more lethal aspects associated with ju-jutsu.

Judo focuses more on throws/takedowns, BJJ focuses more on groundwork (upper body).

All three are excellent.

#117176 - 03/10/04 10:25 PM Re: What makes BJJ different from Judo?

Bjj includes several techniques no longer included in most modern judo schools who focus on olympic rules(ie.grapevining).

Bjj is actualy based on pre wwII judo.

#117177 - 03/11/04 03:49 AM Re: What makes BJJ different from Judo?
kiwi Offline

Registered: 07/26/03
Posts: 789
Loc: Wellington New Zealand
BJJ focuses on the gorund aspect far more then Judo. They also have a highly refined guard because of this. Most BJJ classes spend most of their time rolling around.

Judo focuses more on throws. Some time is spent learning gorund fighting but the majority is learning how to throw people. This suits Judo rules, in which if you ippon your opponet (Throw them flat on their back) then you win.

#117178 - 03/11/04 11:21 AM Re: What makes BJJ different from Judo?
immrtldragon Offline

Registered: 05/22/03
Posts: 1540
Loc: Just outside Philadelphia, PA
I agree with what Kiwi said, except that part about the matwork. True BJJ does focus more on mat work, but most Judo clubs(including my club) does about 50%/50%. Some do focus more on the throws because that is how you win competitions for the most part, but many schools work them equally. Also, as stated above, a lot of Judo techniques no longer permitted in Judo competition is still legal in BJJ competition...but that doesn't mean we don't learn them. I learned the triangle choke and various other techniques illegal at Judo comps in my club. The Judo clubs will definitely focus more on throws than the BJJ clubs though. BJJ is much more ground oriented because that is typical at a BJJ comp. You will see many guys simply pulling you into their guard. Both are great styles. You should just see what clubs are in your area and see what training you like better. Also, Sambo is cool. I've had the opportunity to go to a Sambo club and fight Sambo rules. In sport Sambo, they do not allow chokes, but they allow leg locks. Also, I believe BJJ allows leg locks...they are rare in a Judo club and non-existent in a Judo comp. My suggestion is to try each of the three and see where you feel is the best environment for you.

#117179 - 03/11/04 12:52 PM Re: What makes BJJ different from Judo?
Cato Offline

Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 1636
If you ask me, BJJ came about as a reaction to the percieved watering down of Judo to conform to olympic competition rules, and is in essence combat Judo. In it's truest form Judo is more than an Olympic sport, but try finding a traditional dojo and you'll struggle. BJJ returned Judo to it's roots, if in a slightly (?) modified way.

The point of Judo should be to aim to achieve ippon with a clean throw, follow up techniques and ne waza are for when the throw fails. BJJ cares less about throws and is based upon getting your opponent to the ground as quickly and economically as possible. Most of the techniques in BJJ are also in Judo, including the triangle strangle(sankaku jime), but many aren't allowed in Judo competition and so only rarely taught. Judo also contains a number of kata that are rarely seen in modern practice.

BJJ is not as well rouded as Judo in that BJJ is simply a method of fighting rather than a complete art, with all the attendant customs, ettiquette and traditions. Judo is, obviously, a DO art and has most if not all of the same objectives as karate-do and aikido. BJJ is a modified jutsu art (if indeed Brazilian Ju jutsu can be considered an authentic jutsu art, but that is another matter entirely [IMG][/IMG] ) as is really more analogous with Ju jutsu than Judo.


#117180 - 03/12/04 06:11 AM Re: What makes BJJ different from Judo?
Judokid Offline

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 184
Both are good. I've studied Judo for a few years and it is wonderful. If you don't like it, try wrestling. I've done that, too. For self- defense, Judo is good, but several things need to be known:
first, read other threads here about Judo and self defense. See especially Brewers thread on whether Judo is usable for self defense.

Second, try to find a traditional Dojo. though they love the sport aspect a s well, even if they do not go over the moves for self defense, they will give you a great start, and you can adapt them and work from there on your own. Sport was only intended to be a part of Judo, not the whole thing by its founder, Profesor Jigoro Kano. Or, find a modern teacher, and see if they go over the moves for self deense. Believe me, it works. You just need to know when to use it. You aslready know some striking, so just add it to your grappling. And don't be stupid. Against an armed person, use reality defense.

#117181 - 03/20/04 07:56 AM Re: What makes BJJ different from Judo?
JKogas Offline

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Good points by all.

I'm not a judoka but I'm somewhat familiar with it. I have friends who are judoka(3rd degree black belts, respectively in Kodokan judo) and, I am highly respectful of the art. There ARE differences between the arts to be sure and following are some of the more notable ones I have seen:

1. The classes as taught by my judo friends are jiu-jitsu/judo. Thus, you have the "lethal" striking, etc., from the Japanese jiu-jitsu perspective. The striking portions of the class however aren't taught in an alive manner and in fact are just line drills, performed in the air. Each strike is done 10 times and the count is in the Japanese language.

2. Striking as taught in Brazilian jiu-jitsu classes is culled from Western boxing and Thai boxing. It's peformed alive (always)and done with partners.

3. Judo's throws are great! They are so because they work even when your opponent is resisting and that's what matters most.
However, they are at times, to reliant upon the grip on clothing to execute. Also, entering into range for the throws is often done without your partners striking at you. This definitely creates limited skill development for real time use. (I realize that others train may differently from this however and if so, that is duly noted).

4. Brazilian jiu-jitsu's takedowns (until recent times that is) were horrible, compared to judo and wrestling! This is changing because Brazilian jiu-jitsu evolves and isn't concerned with keeping itself as an "art" form in the purest sense. The art is JKD-like in that, the art grows and changes with what becomes found to be effective. They "absorb what is useful", in other words.

The takedowns in Brazilian jiu-jitsu are worked against boxing technique at the intermediate levels. The emphasis on the takedowns aren't meant to score points so much as just get your opponent to the ground. They aren't concerned with "how pretty it is". Therefore, the idea is just to get the clinch and to go from there. It's NOT pretty, but is pretty damned effective!

5. The mat work in judo is often-times limited to 30 seconds or so. This may differ where others train. Also, many things aren't practiced such as neck cranks and leg locks. Again, this may differ at other schools.

6. Brazilian jiu-jitsu has no time limit on mat work and goes until the submission or escape has been done. The ground work is also practiced with strikes during the vale tudo portion.

Brazilian jiu-jitsu competition doesn't allow leg locks (at least most of them), but these are practiced with growing popularity, within most BJJ schools.

If you have a different perspective on judo training, please post about it!

Enjoy the day!


#117182 - 03/20/04 09:24 AM Re: What makes BJJ different from Judo?
immrtldragon Offline

Registered: 05/22/03
Posts: 1540
Loc: Just outside Philadelphia, PA
One thing I would like to mention...a lot of BJJ clubs do teach traditional Judo throws, just not to the same extent of practice as Judo clubs. A friend of mine does BJJ and knew a lot of the throws (even the Japanese names for them). Likewise, there are a lot of Judoka who cross train in BJJ. Not so much because the matwork is better, but as John emphasized, it is practiced more. Whenever my neck heals, I plan to do a little BJJ to practice my matwork. Funny thing is that my club does about 50% matwork and that is more of a reason for me to try some BJJ. If my club didn't do it so much, I may have less motivation to get a lot better...but since I know it will come in handy, I plan to roll with some BJJ guys...if I don't knock them unconscious from the throws!! [IMG][/IMG]
Just kidding about that last part...I know they have good takedown defense.

#117183 - 03/22/04 11:22 AM Re: What makes BJJ different from Judo?
judodoc Offline

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 152
Loc: Charlottesville VA USA
BJJ and Judo are mostly very similar, the rule sets tend to emphasize throws(judo) vs matwork (BJJ)but there is a lot of overlap.
What makes them different is probably mindset. I don't know too many BJJers but from reading posts here it seems much more acutely focused on defending against attacks on the street. I have found in Judo if you talk very much about self defense most players start to look at you like you are some sort of head case.
Judo is intrinsically effective for self defense but it is rarely discussed amongst serious judoka. It is assumed I think.

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