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#117073 - 03/26/04 02:05 PM Re: Why does Judo get a bad rep?
VJ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/16/04
Posts: 146
Loc: San Diego, CA
the504mikey:

The main reason that I believe that judo gets a bad rep is the stand-up factor. Judo has poor strikes. Check out how many judoka have ko'd anyone with strikes. Christophe Leninger discovered this fighting Ken Shamrock in the UFC. He added some punches and advanced to the final round but still didn't show any real punching power.

Grappling itself isn't the question as proven by the UFC, ECC, KOTC and other NHB tournaments. Most of the more successful fighters incorporate judo throws into their arsenal. But if one notices most fighters grab the cage or rope to avoid being taken down. This is a natural reaction not something trained because people don't want to be taken down.

Sadly only in the Olympics does anyone (except me) see it. For some reason it isn't shown on tv.

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#117074 - 03/26/04 02:53 PM Re: Why does Judo get a bad rep?
the504mikey Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 06/19/03
Posts: 790
Loc: Louisiana, United States
[QUOTE]
Sadly only in the Olympics does anyone (except me) see it (judo). For some reason it isn't shown on tv.
[/QUOTE]

Actually, I thought about this when the original question was posed. To me, it's not that judo has a bad rep, it's that it has NO rep. Most anyone who has any direct experience with judo has a great deal of respect for it both as a sport and a martial art-- judo just doesn't seem to get any exposure.

I'm not sure that is a bad thing, really. If everyone started flocking to judo I think they would take away more from it than they would bring to it-- the McDojo phenomenon. Soon you would see instructors minimizing ukemi to keep the customers happy, then the list of restricted techniques would start to grow, and soon you would have tae kwon judo...

(I mean no offense to traditional TKD practitioners. You should be as aware as anyone how becoming too popular can be bad for an art.)

The truth is, real martial arts just isn't for everyone, or even for very many people. That's OK. If it were for everyone, it would have to change into something else, something that in my opinion is a lot less desirable.

It would still be great to be abel to turn on ESPN and catch a judo match once or twice a week, though.

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#117075 - 03/29/04 10:25 AM Re: Why does Judo get a bad rep?
VJ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/16/04
Posts: 146
Loc: San Diego, CA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by the504mikey:
I'm not sure that is a bad thing, really. If everyone started flocking to judo I think they would take away more from it than they would bring to it-- the McDojo phenomenon.
[/QUOTE]

I disagree with that because I've met many people who have studied different arts who show little or no respect for judo. Sadly they see it as a japanese version of wrestling(?). When I mention that its on totally different principles (leverage & balance versus strength) they think of ju-jitsu or aikido. You won't believe how many laugh when I tell them it is actually a martial art. Usually they advise me that they have seen track & field events, swimming, swimming and less exciting sports. I've been asked if judo is such an exciting sport why isn't it on tv like soccer, swimming, horseback riding, track and field.
I would hate to see the "McDojo phenonemon" however more exposure would educate people about judo.

Plus it wouldn't hurt for judokas to be able to watch the Olympic judo and cheer for their teams.

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#117076 - 03/29/04 12:37 PM Re: Why does Judo get a bad rep?
immrtldragon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/22/03
Posts: 1540
Loc: Just outside Philadelphia, PA
VJ - Perhaps the people you mention in the above post are mildly retarded OR never actually fought/trained with a Judoka. It's like people's opinions of boxing. Many say they would get destroyed in a street fight because they only employ punching...these people are sorely mistaken. I know a BJJ kid who actually thinks you can just grab a boxer and take him down...so not true. The footwork and ability to hit you while moving would be a huge challenge to deal with for any grappler. Likewise, Judoka would show how martial oriented it can be in a real or close to real fight (eg: Fedor, Judoka/Samboist - Yoshida, Judoka). I think those types of people do not train in Judo and need an excuse to make themselves feel better...eg: "it's just a sport." Like an insecure guy who picks on everyone and puts them down to put himself on top. Then ask these people if they have actually tried Judo...they either say "no" or "I did it for a couple months, but I didn't think it was defense otriented enough"...translation: "I couldn't take it, they actually fight and resist."

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#117077 - 04/01/04 03:20 AM Re: Why does Judo get a bad rep?
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
immrtldragon -- SO true! People who's egos prevent them in participating against others in martial "sport" (for fear of looking bad) use the "sport" excuse all the time.

Most judo guys are very tough. Toughness is created by the very act of training in a realistic martial art (such as judo or boxing, etc...). The very nature of these sports is tough. I think that many judo players would be people that you wouldn't want to screw with on the street. Same with boxers, muay Thai fighters, BJJ fighters, etc. (all of these being "sport" in some people's eyes)


-John

[This message has been edited by JKogas (edited 04-01-2004).]

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#117078 - 04/01/04 11:55 PM Re: Why does Judo get a bad rep?
VJ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/16/04
Posts: 146
Loc: San Diego, CA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by JKogas:
immrtldragon -- SO true! People who's egos prevent them in participating against others in martial "sport" (for fear of looking bad) use the "sport" excuse all the time.

Most judo guys are very tough. Toughness is created by the very act of training in a realistic martial art (such as judo or boxing, etc...). The very nature of these sports is tough. I think that many judo players would be people that you wouldn't want to screw with on the street. Same with boxers, muay Thai fighters, BJJ fighters, etc. (all of these being "sport" in some people's eyes)


-John

[This message has been edited by JKogas (edited 04-01-2004).]
[/QUOTE]

Let's stop here for a moment. The people that I speak with are martial artists themselves and not handicapped in any manner. (Maybe financially). I doubt that they wouldn't be able to take it because most work as bouncers or security people. Many are military and do this as a side job. Is this to say that their military training in self defense isn't sufficiently tough enough? I work on a military base and watch the service people do their running, jumping, self defense training, survival training and general admin training regularly. Sorry immtrldragon and JKogas but you are both way off on that note.

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#117079 - 04/02/04 10:24 AM Re: Why does Judo get a bad rep?
immrtldragon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/22/03
Posts: 1540
Loc: Just outside Philadelphia, PA
Great, they are martial artists. What does that tell me...they practice some type of martial art. That doesn't actually mean they are good fighters or know what they are doing. As far as your friends who are bouncers/security...still, that tells me nothing. If that is the case, they have some type of weapon (security) or a lot of backup (bouncers) and primarily deal with drunken fools. I have met cops who train in Aikido...does that mean it is the best??? Nope. I train with some cops at my Judo club...they agree with me that Judo is the most realistic thing they have found to date. That is also their opinion. Now we're kind of going off topic. I am going to say that the way I perceived my training and 'foul tactics' is based on personal experience and things I have witnessed...not stories I've been told. I have been poked and pinched and had 'pressure points' pushed...it is an annoyance at best based on my PERSONAL, ACTUAL experience. I went to a Taijutsu school where they insisted these moves would put you out and got into a little 'more serious' scuffle with a student who thought these 'weak points' was the end all. They really didn't do anything...he was a black belt with a chip on his shoulder. You can believe what you want...I go by what I have experienced. Perhaps 'tricks' work on inexperienced drunk guys...good for them...not good for me. But believe what you want...you have your beliefs based on what you have heard...I have mine based on what I've experienced.

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#117080 - 04/02/04 10:41 PM Re: Why does Judo get a bad rep?
VJ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/16/04
Posts: 146
Loc: San Diego, CA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by immrtldragon:
But believe what you want...you have your beliefs based on what you have heard...I have mine based on what I've experienced.[/QUOTE]

Take a breath immrtldragon. Under no circumstances am I trying to provoke an argument with you. I am expressing my opinion and I am happy that I've been blessed not to have to fight. Nor am I trying to change your viewpoint because I don't know you. The bouncers and other people that I talk to may (or may not) have weapons on them. Most of the clubs here don't let there bouncers carry guns because if something happens and innocent people get hurt the club is liable. I am glad that someone has effectively applied judo in a real life situation and survived. I plan to learn more about the self defense side of judo rather than just the sport side. Later.

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#117081 - 04/03/04 09:21 AM Re: Why does Judo get a bad rep?
immrtldragon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/22/03
Posts: 1540
Loc: Just outside Philadelphia, PA
<takes deep breath>
That feels better. I was just saying that the foul tactics can't be relied on and was trying to show why I think that. If it came off as a tyraid (sp) I apologize.

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#117082 - 04/03/04 04:29 PM Re: Why does Judo get a bad rep?
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
VJ -- it would greatly help you to take your blinders off regarding the whole sport/street thing. Why take it as a black and white issue?

If there is NO sportive qualities within your training, you're not going to be able to apply what it is that you're training!

-John

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