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#117063 - 01/11/04 04:57 PM Re: Why does Judo get a bad rep?
Tanigawa Sensei Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 8
Loc: UK
What seems to have been forgotten is the origins of Judo. Where did Judo come from? Dr Kano studied Ju-Jitsu for many years and found that many of his partners were being hurt. He devised Judo as a safe means of practice, so students would last a little longer. All the Atemi, Leg locks, Spine locks were retained in the Kata's. Judo in certain respescts has lost it's way. In certain clubs/schools it has turned into a competetive sport. Contest was only used in Judo so that the student could try out the techniques and to measure there abilities and nothing more. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/cool.gif[/IMG]

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#117064 - 01/26/04 09:44 PM Re: Why does Judo get a bad rep?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Because of things like Olympic. Bad media exposure. Just like BJJ, people look at the UFC etc and say this is all there is to the art. [you don't need to train to do single leg takedown]

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#117065 - 01/27/04 02:38 PM Re: Why does Judo get a bad rep?
immrtldragon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/22/03
Posts: 1540
Loc: Just outside Philadelphia, PA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Shotokan:
Because of things like Olympic. Bad media exposure. Just like BJJ, people look at the UFC etc and say this is all there is to the art. [you don't need to train to do single leg takedown][/QUOTE]

Bad media exposure to a point, I agree...but the issue I was adressing was from an internal view (eg: traditional arts claiming Judo is just a sport, not self defense applicable, or less of a martial art). From a layman's point of view, they think anyone in a gi kicks/punches and screams "Whattaahh!!!" Thanks for posting with your opinion though, Shotokan.

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#117066 - 03/13/04 06:04 AM Re: Why does Judo get a bad rep?
backwardwalker Offline
Newbie

Registered: 03/11/04
Posts: 6
Loc: fl,usa
Sport VS Self Defense or is it really Sport + Self Defense...This topic is exactly why judo survives, improves and works so well. How many people include eye pokes while doing standing randori?? You simply cannot. One slip and your partner is injured. How about throat grabs, chin shoves while standing? Safer, but the adams apple and face are easily injured.. These simple and realistic techniques can be used as setups (and counters) for throws in a self defense situation as they are in sumo.. From a close standing situation or clinch, you force the opponent to grab your wrist or block a face attack, or he responds by moving his head, groin, or leg, then you go for a grip and throw. If he doesn't reply, you off balance him backwards and throw him.
But, these "dangerous" moves are not practiced in randori so that you can acquire real skills of fighting: throwing, off balancing, movement. These setups are good to know as helpers for your skills. It is essential to introduce rules of fairplay to avoid injury and make practice pleasant. For real fights, we should train using throws as a response to committed face pushing, shoving, face grabbing/eye poking attacks. This is what I believe to be the origin of pummeling in wrestling.. All these ideas are already hidden away in aikido and judo if you look in the right way. Judo gets a bad reputation because the judogi gets in the way of learning how to fight. Shorten the sleeves, allow wrestling tackles, belt grips and chin shoves. Watch it change into the strongest art around.

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#117067 - 03/14/04 06:21 AM Re: Why does Judo get a bad rep?
Karma Offline
Member

Registered: 01/04/04
Posts: 78
Loc: Canberra, ACT, Australia
Hi all

For anyone smart enough not to read my past posts, I do Jujitsu.

Now I didn't just choose it cos I liked the name: a bit of research was conducted and I found that Jujitsu covered throwing and grappling as well as striking and choking etc.

Now what I found out later was that this style of Jujitsu is infact a combined art using Judo, Kempo Karate and Jujitsu. What the creator of this art did, and I quote, he "studied several martial arts and combined them with medical science, Anatomy, Dynamics and Psychology"

Sounds to me like this gentleman wanted to create a sound martial art and self defence system

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#117068 - 03/14/04 02:11 PM Re: Why does Judo get a bad rep?
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by JKogas:

Saying the word "alive" is far easier than saying; "having the qualities of timing, motion and energy (resistance)" EVERY damned time I post something, lol.
-John
[/QUOTE]

Lol. Easier for you but more annoying for us.

English is a language of variety.

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#117069 - 03/14/04 02:16 PM Re: Why does Judo get a bad rep?
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by backwardwalker:
Sport VS Self Defense or is it really Sport + Self Defense...This topic is exactly why judo survives, improves and works so well. How many people include eye pokes while doing standing randori?? You simply cannot. One slip and your partner is injured. How about throat grabs, chin shoves while standing? Safer, but the adams apple and face are easily injured.. These simple and realistic techniques can be used as setups (and counters) for throws in a self defense situation as they are in sumo.. From a close standing situation or clinch, you force the opponent to grab your wrist or block a face attack, or he responds by moving his head, groin, or leg, then you go for a grip and throw. If he doesn't reply, you off balance him backwards and throw him.
But, these "dangerous" moves are not practiced in randori so that you can acquire real skills of fighting: throwing, off balancing, movement. These setups are good to know as helpers for your skills. It is essential to introduce rules of fairplay to avoid injury and make practice pleasant. For real fights, we should train using throws as a response to committed face pushing, shoving, face grabbing/eye poking attacks. This is what I believe to be the origin of pummeling in wrestling.. All these ideas are already hidden away in aikido and judo if you look in the right way. Judo gets a bad reputation because the judogi gets in the way of learning how to fight. Shorten the sleeves, allow wrestling tackles, belt grips and chin shoves. Watch it change into the strongest art around.
[/QUOTE]

That's my point with this "alive" thing. Some moves can be trained "alive" but I won't go so far as to hurt someone to prove that I can perfrom.


Mine if I borrow your quote Backwardwalker? [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

[This message has been edited by Shotokan (edited 03-14-2004).]

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#117070 - 03/25/04 09:39 AM Re: Why does Judo get a bad rep?
VJ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/16/04
Posts: 146
Loc: San Diego, CA
the504mikey- I totally disagree with you about the issue of whether judo is a sport or not. First off, judo was intended to be a martial art. Dr. Kano just wanted a safer way to practice. It is much like boxing when someone decided that it would be safer if both fighters wore gloves instead of just bare knuckle.

However I do agree with you about the striking issue. Judokas don't practice effective striking until they are black belt level or above. This reluctance does hamper the judoka in a real street fight. Kata based arts have the problem because street fights are sudden, explosive and irrational. The one advantage of any grappling art is that practice involves dealing with getting out of sudden chokes, strangles and hold downs especially if it goes to the ground.

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#117071 - 03/25/04 10:05 AM Re: Why does Judo get a bad rep?
the504mikey Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 06/19/03
Posts: 790
Loc: Louisiana, United States
VJ,

"Sport" may have been an unfortunate choice of words, although I do think the term applies to the way most judo is being taught and practiced today, at least in the United States.

I share your view that Judo is a complete martial art. I was mainly trying to emphasize the point that what makes judo so effective is the time spent "fighting" a resisting opponent who does not have a cooperative mindset. I think that is a big part of the genius of Kano and the gift he gave us.

So, in essence, I didn't mean "sport" as in not intended for use in combat or self defense, but rather "sport" as in you can play as hard as you want and there is still a pretty good chance everyone will get home relatively intact.

I train in jujitsu now, and we have to be ever vigilant against the fallacy of "cooperating" in our practice. In judo, that problem doesn't exist, and that to me is a big part of what makes judo special and useful. But I never meant to imply that it is not a martial art. At times in my life when I have been hard pressed, judo has helped me. I see it as very much suitable for self defense use, provided you spend a little training time fine tuning it and thinking about what happens before and after the throw. Judo is a great toolbox, and I think a good judoka who spends some time doing "homework" on the more combative aspects of it can become formidable very quickly.

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#117072 - 03/25/04 03:43 PM Re: Why does Judo get a bad rep?
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
I believe that it wasn't that Kano solely wanted a "safer" way of training as is generally told. I believe he wanted a more realistic way of training.

Kano was truly one of the great thinkers of his time.


-John

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